just wonderin'--why would anyone buy one of these?
11-16-05, 09:27 AM
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hell's angels h/q e3st ny
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just wonderin'--why would anyone buy one of these?
not tryin' to be argumentative--i mean let a thousand blossoms bloom and all-but i was checkin' out the world of bespoke custom bikes and wondered why anyone would pay so much for a fixie. specifically a seven cycles fixie. ****, it cost thousands! doesn't that kinda defeat the whole allure of ss/fg? how could they be that much better than, say, my iro? just wonderin'. who you think buys these? 
11-16-05, 09:34 AM
#2
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People with more money than they need.
11-16-05, 09:40 AM
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People that think the thickness of a human hair will change the way a frame feels *ducks)
11-16-05, 09:54 AM
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Frankly, Mr. Shankly
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People will choose what they will.
I have heard but have yet to experience the thought that if you have to ask why custom, then you won't understand why.
A custom frame fits you. You don't fit or try to adapt to a frame. The frame fits you. It is made to your body's specs.
A custom frame is made not in Taiwan by a machine or the hands of minimum wage workers but by typically a single person (not in the case of Seven though) working in a shop on their own.
A custom frame isn't that expensive, depending on how you pick. A Jonny Cycles frame is something like $1200+ depending on what you decide you want to do with it.
Custom frames are not cheap or easy to produce. Consider the costs, the time and the effort that goes into such workmanship and you're looking at not much of a profit. These frames take a few months to build.
Divvy that money you're paying over that time and framebuilders aren't making that much. They're suriving is what it is. And for what you're getting in the end? Very worth it.
The allure of fg/ss is somewhat tweaked. You can buy a bottom of the line Trek or Specialized for much cheaper than you could an off the shelf fixie.
The allure is in taking an old frame and converting it. That's part of the allure but not the only part of why people ride these bikes.
Some choose to ride and race track (as I do) and demand a performance machine. Some enjoy and appreciate the feel of a quality machine.
There are different aspects and appeal to riding fixed/ss, just as there are in cars or motorcycles or any other division of the cycling world.
And that's sort of the beauty - you can get into it with a smaller cost or you can get into it at a higher cost.
I have heard but have yet to experience the thought that if you have to ask why custom, then you won't understand why.
A custom frame fits you. You don't fit or try to adapt to a frame. The frame fits you. It is made to your body's specs.
A custom frame is made not in Taiwan by a machine or the hands of minimum wage workers but by typically a single person (not in the case of Seven though) working in a shop on their own.
A custom frame isn't that expensive, depending on how you pick. A Jonny Cycles frame is something like $1200+ depending on what you decide you want to do with it.
Custom frames are not cheap or easy to produce. Consider the costs, the time and the effort that goes into such workmanship and you're looking at not much of a profit. These frames take a few months to build.
Divvy that money you're paying over that time and framebuilders aren't making that much. They're suriving is what it is. And for what you're getting in the end? Very worth it.
The allure of fg/ss is somewhat tweaked. You can buy a bottom of the line Trek or Specialized for much cheaper than you could an off the shelf fixie.
The allure is in taking an old frame and converting it. That's part of the allure but not the only part of why people ride these bikes.
Some choose to ride and race track (as I do) and demand a performance machine. Some enjoy and appreciate the feel of a quality machine.
There are different aspects and appeal to riding fixed/ss, just as there are in cars or motorcycles or any other division of the cycling world.
And that's sort of the beauty - you can get into it with a smaller cost or you can get into it at a higher cost.
11-16-05, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by absntr
People will choose what they will.
I have heard but have yet to experience the thought that if you have to ask why custom, then you won't understand why.
A custom frame fits you. You don't fit or try to adapt to a frame. The frame fits you. It is made to your body's specs.
A custom frame is made not in Taiwan by a machine or the hands of minimum wage workers but by typically a single person (not in the case of Seven though) working in a shop on their own.
A custom frame isn't that expensive, depending on how you pick. A Jonny Cycles frame is something like $1200+ depending on what you decide you want to do with it.
Custom frames are not cheap or easy to produce. Consider the costs, the time and the effort that goes into such workmanship and you're looking at not much of a profit. These frames take a few months to build.
Divvy that money you're paying over that time and framebuilders aren't making that much. They're suriving is what it is. And for what you're getting in the end? Very worth it.
The allure of fg/ss is somewhat tweaked. You can buy a bottom of the line Trek or Specialized for much cheaper than you could an off the shelf fixie.
The allure is in taking an old frame and converting it. That's part of the allure but not the only part of why people ride these bikes.
Some choose to ride and race track (as I do) and demand a performance machine. Some enjoy and appreciate the feel of a quality machine.
There are different aspects and appeal to riding fixed/ss, just as there are in cars or motorcycles or any other division of the cycling world.
And that's sort of the beauty - you can get into it with a smaller cost or you can get into it at a higher cost.
I have heard but have yet to experience the thought that if you have to ask why custom, then you won't understand why.
A custom frame fits you. You don't fit or try to adapt to a frame. The frame fits you. It is made to your body's specs.
A custom frame is made not in Taiwan by a machine or the hands of minimum wage workers but by typically a single person (not in the case of Seven though) working in a shop on their own.
A custom frame isn't that expensive, depending on how you pick. A Jonny Cycles frame is something like $1200+ depending on what you decide you want to do with it.
Custom frames are not cheap or easy to produce. Consider the costs, the time and the effort that goes into such workmanship and you're looking at not much of a profit. These frames take a few months to build.
Divvy that money you're paying over that time and framebuilders aren't making that much. They're suriving is what it is. And for what you're getting in the end? Very worth it.
The allure of fg/ss is somewhat tweaked. You can buy a bottom of the line Trek or Specialized for much cheaper than you could an off the shelf fixie.
The allure is in taking an old frame and converting it. That's part of the allure but not the only part of why people ride these bikes.
Some choose to ride and race track (as I do) and demand a performance machine. Some enjoy and appreciate the feel of a quality machine.
There are different aspects and appeal to riding fixed/ss, just as there are in cars or motorcycles or any other division of the cycling world.
And that's sort of the beauty - you can get into it with a smaller cost or you can get into it at a higher cost.
Also - if you don't think a custom Seven will feel better than an Iro you haven't ridden a high end bike or (duh) a custom bike.
"Why would anyone buy a Porsche?? I bet driving a Miata feels the same and it costs way less!"
11-16-05, 10:04 AM
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I have a custom IF tri bike.
I love it. (ok, it's got gears, but shhhh)
I had it built cause I wanted a tri bike that would FIT ME.
ME ME ME.
I'm a 5'4" woman and at the time all the off the rack stuff cost about the same and I'd have to take everything off to make it what I wanted to get it to work for me, so I went custom.
I totally love it.
Would I do it for a fixie that I ride everyday? Maybe, but my everyday ride fits me really well and I don't ride it 112 miles after swimming 2.4 and before running 26.2.
I love it. (ok, it's got gears, but shhhh)
I had it built cause I wanted a tri bike that would FIT ME.
ME ME ME.
I'm a 5'4" woman and at the time all the off the rack stuff cost about the same and I'd have to take everything off to make it what I wanted to get it to work for me, so I went custom.
I totally love it.
Would I do it for a fixie that I ride everyday? Maybe, but my everyday ride fits me really well and I don't ride it 112 miles after swimming 2.4 and before running 26.2.
11-16-05, 10:13 AM
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absntr has a great summary, but Ira said it best: Budget and Priorities.
I've always said that it's about expendature percentages relating to income percentages.
I work a full time, salaried job, as a computer programmer for a large medical center. There are doctors here that make more than five times my salary. I make five times the salary of the people working in the cafeteria. That said, my mortgage is not five times the rent of our cafeteria worker, nor is it 1/5th the mortgage of said doctors. The same holds true of car payments, insurance, and living expenses. That means that the doctor has more money to spend at the end of the day, and not just because he gets paid more. So, if a doctor is an avid cyclist and wants to buy a new singlespeed / fixie for whatever reason, then he's willing to spend more for it.
At the same time, his priorities are different too. When I go home I love to work on my bikes, and I truely love turning an older bike into something useful. All of the doctors that I know are busy trying to make keep up with medical advances and spend time with their families. So, again, he's more willing to buy new, and also to have someone build it up.
I wouldn't turn down a Ti fixie if I could afford it.
I've always said that it's about expendature percentages relating to income percentages.
I work a full time, salaried job, as a computer programmer for a large medical center. There are doctors here that make more than five times my salary. I make five times the salary of the people working in the cafeteria. That said, my mortgage is not five times the rent of our cafeteria worker, nor is it 1/5th the mortgage of said doctors. The same holds true of car payments, insurance, and living expenses. That means that the doctor has more money to spend at the end of the day, and not just because he gets paid more. So, if a doctor is an avid cyclist and wants to buy a new singlespeed / fixie for whatever reason, then he's willing to spend more for it.
At the same time, his priorities are different too. When I go home I love to work on my bikes, and I truely love turning an older bike into something useful. All of the doctors that I know are busy trying to make keep up with medical advances and spend time with their families. So, again, he's more willing to buy new, and also to have someone build it up.
I wouldn't turn down a Ti fixie if I could afford it.
11-16-05, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by bandregg
Budget and Priorities.
11-16-05, 10:21 AM
#10
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My first comment may have sounded judgemental. It's not meant to be, it's simply true. If you can afford to spend several thousand dollars for a custom frame you have more money than you need, for that matter if you can afford to spend $100 for a used frame you have more money than you need.
That said I can certainly appreciate the quality in a high end production frame, and the artisanship in a custom hand made frame. If you can afford it, and you want it more than you want your discretionary funds go for it.
Many of us will never have the discretionary funds for something 7-like. Does that mean we will enjoy cycling less than those who can afford a custom built frame? I doubt it. In fact I think I appreciate the bike I built up from Krylon and sweat even more than someone who can whip out a credit card and buy top of the line. Anyone can appreciate quality craftsmanship, but there is a different kind of pride in ownership when one struggles to get something than when they can simply buy whatever they please.
My bikes all seem pretty mundane by the standards of most of the folks here, but I am as proud of them as Chimay is of his new Vanilla, because they are mine. I'm sure there are those less well to do than I who have a similar love of bicycles, and a similar pride in whatever machine they may own.
That said I can certainly appreciate the quality in a high end production frame, and the artisanship in a custom hand made frame. If you can afford it, and you want it more than you want your discretionary funds go for it.
Many of us will never have the discretionary funds for something 7-like. Does that mean we will enjoy cycling less than those who can afford a custom built frame? I doubt it. In fact I think I appreciate the bike I built up from Krylon and sweat even more than someone who can whip out a credit card and buy top of the line. Anyone can appreciate quality craftsmanship, but there is a different kind of pride in ownership when one struggles to get something than when they can simply buy whatever they please.
My bikes all seem pretty mundane by the standards of most of the folks here, but I am as proud of them as Chimay is of his new Vanilla, because they are mine. I'm sure there are those less well to do than I who have a similar love of bicycles, and a similar pride in whatever machine they may own.
11-16-05, 10:22 AM
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Frankly, Mr. Shankly
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Budget and priorities indeed. Agreed, seconded and thirded!
If it's a huge part of your life, as it is mine, then a custom might be up your alley.
The way they work isn't too bad either, you pay a deposit and you pay the rest upon completion. That way you can save up between initial start and waiting for your frame. I know people who work at coffeeshops and in the service industry who have customs because they saved their money for it.
It's not for everyone of course and it may not be the best choice for you at this time. But a little does go a long way in this I believe.
Mattlikesbikes - my friend's significant other has a Bilenky - very nice work indeed.
If it's a huge part of your life, as it is mine, then a custom might be up your alley.
The way they work isn't too bad either, you pay a deposit and you pay the rest upon completion. That way you can save up between initial start and waiting for your frame. I know people who work at coffeeshops and in the service industry who have customs because they saved their money for it.
It's not for everyone of course and it may not be the best choice for you at this time. But a little does go a long way in this I believe.
Mattlikesbikes - my friend's significant other has a Bilenky - very nice work indeed.
11-16-05, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Walkercycles
What he said!
DW
DW
and to the poster?...have you ridden a seven custom fixie before (or a titanium one at that)?...I have. It was the first fix I've ever ridden. Euphoria might be a good word to describe the feeling. Got me hooked on and dreamin' of fixies for years since. I'm this (*holds up fingers*) close to completing my conversion finally! Yay...
it won't be even close to a seven, but...I'll love it just as much as that first ride
11-16-05, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by mattface
People with more money than they need.
some people just choose to have a stern discretion about where they allocate their funds, and make investments that they value (like like the rest of us investing in our bikes)
11-16-05, 10:32 AM
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hell's angels h/q e3st ny
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cool! it's all good! just wonderin' is all!! good answers. maybe i'll have to get me one too! but i do like my iro. a lot. 
11-16-05, 10:39 AM
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I did it because I finally could. Growing up, I did without. Super cheap roadie frames and mediocre components. My fixed gear is, by all accounts, excessive. But it was not meant to "be better" than anyone else's bike. I got it because I have an incredible appreciation for the work Sacha does and I wanted a fixed gear bike. I wasn't trying to buy passage into the FG culture. You will not see me in shants or messenger bag over my shoulder. I'm not a messenger and I don't intend to pretend to be one. I'm just some average joe who enjoys riding. I was after what I believed was a work of art, the simplicity of a FG and, after busting my tail at my job for 20 years, I can afford that luxury. I've never given a flip what someone rides or what they wear. Too each his/her own and do whatever makes you happy.
11-16-05, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by brunop
cool! it's all good! just wonderin' is all!! good answers. maybe i'll have to get me one too! but i do like my iro. a lot.
speaking of IRO...I JUST ordered my IRO bottom bracket (to complete my conversion). Can't wait.
11-16-05, 10:44 AM
#17
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Originally Posted by Chimay
You will not see me in shants or messenger bag over my shoulder.
__________________
Originally Posted by monkey
You could be doing blow off a dead hooker with a needle sticking out of your arm and you wouldn't get kicked out of Humboldt.
11-16-05, 12:20 PM
#18
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Originally Posted by teiaperigosa
not necessarily...
some people just choose to have a stern discretion about where they allocate their funds, and make investments that they value (like like the rest of us investing in our bikes)
some people just choose to have a stern discretion about where they allocate their funds, and make investments that they value (like like the rest of us investing in our bikes)
I didn't intend to get preachy here, but yeah it says a lot about our priorities what we choose to spend our money on. I'm not meaning to judge or condemn anyone else's priorities here. Bike lust is a pretty benign vice in the grand scheme of things. I'm all for supporting artisans and craftspeople, but let's not pretend that high-end bikes are anything other than a luxury.
11-16-05, 01:44 PM
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Part of it might just be that exposure. When you get that high up in dollar amounts, the differences sometimes amount to small changes on maybe a few dozen variables.
But once you've ridden what is arguably the ideal machine, than you are able to even ride the lesser machines with that much more enjoyment since you have a better idea of what they are shooting for, and a better idea of what compromises were made to bring the cost/price level down.
As an analogy, I used to hate espresso. Moved to NY, got a serving job in the East Village and lived upstairs from the restaurant; Issam made me a proper cup of espresso and it was almost a whole new world. "So THAT'S what they're trying to get at, ohhhkaaaay....."
For disclosure, I have a custom touring frame made by a local guy. Easily the best grand I've ever spent, ever, ever, and I am a broke *****, but 90% of the time if you buy something quality, you will appreciate it more and more every time you ride.
And while I won't argue that a lot of high-end bikes can be luxury items (I'd probably put a Ti track frame in there), I don't see my frame and my supporting of the local builder/shop being anywhere *near* luxury. We have a gumball machine in the shop with Ol'Mil tallboys in it. There is a bottle opener within four steps of anywhere in the work area. I use my bike to commute a LOT so that I don't need a car, but to do this I need something I don't have to worry about. And the money spent is worth it.
Of course, these are all reasons why my fancypants/bomber of a tourer/commuter worked as a 'spensive purchase for me personally. There may be similar reasons of which I'm unaware why a Ti track contraption would be good too.
Jesus that was rambling.
But once you've ridden what is arguably the ideal machine, than you are able to even ride the lesser machines with that much more enjoyment since you have a better idea of what they are shooting for, and a better idea of what compromises were made to bring the cost/price level down.
As an analogy, I used to hate espresso. Moved to NY, got a serving job in the East Village and lived upstairs from the restaurant; Issam made me a proper cup of espresso and it was almost a whole new world. "So THAT'S what they're trying to get at, ohhhkaaaay....."
For disclosure, I have a custom touring frame made by a local guy. Easily the best grand I've ever spent, ever, ever, and I am a broke *****, but 90% of the time if you buy something quality, you will appreciate it more and more every time you ride.
And while I won't argue that a lot of high-end bikes can be luxury items (I'd probably put a Ti track frame in there), I don't see my frame and my supporting of the local builder/shop being anywhere *near* luxury. We have a gumball machine in the shop with Ol'Mil tallboys in it. There is a bottle opener within four steps of anywhere in the work area. I use my bike to commute a LOT so that I don't need a car, but to do this I need something I don't have to worry about. And the money spent is worth it.
Of course, these are all reasons why my fancypants/bomber of a tourer/commuter worked as a 'spensive purchase for me personally. There may be similar reasons of which I'm unaware why a Ti track contraption would be good too.
Jesus that was rambling.
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Villin custom touring | Raleigh XXIX | Medici Pro Pista | 1978 Schwinn Stingray
11-16-05, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by mattface
If you can keep a roof above your head, and food in your stomach and still have money over for anything that isn't required to keep you fed and sheltered, then you have more money than you need. I dare say everyone reading this forum probably can meet their basic needs and then some, but that is not true for everyone. There are people in our own country (being US centric here for a moment) in our own communities without enough to eat, and with fuel prices as they are and our government doing f-all about it, I expect more people to be cold this year than in recent memory.
I didn't intend to get preachy here, but yeah it says a lot about our priorities what we choose to spend our money on. I'm not meaning to judge or condemn anyone else's priorities here. Bike lust is a pretty benign vice in the grand scheme of things. I'm all for supporting artisans and craftspeople, but let's not pretend that high-end bikes are anything other than a luxury.
I didn't intend to get preachy here, but yeah it says a lot about our priorities what we choose to spend our money on. I'm not meaning to judge or condemn anyone else's priorities here. Bike lust is a pretty benign vice in the grand scheme of things. I'm all for supporting artisans and craftspeople, but let's not pretend that high-end bikes are anything other than a luxury.
just because I'm spending money on my fixed gear conversion doesn't mean that I have more money than I need though...
The great (or horrible) thing about our society is that we can run ourselves into debt, or neglect to pay for some things while choosing to pay for others
Everyone in this society, including the most underprivileged, pays for SOMETHING that is not absolute necessity. For some it is brand name sneakers, for others it might be candy, or weed, or a cell phone, or liquor, or a second pair of clothing(or for others a 50th), or a tv, or internet etc. ...and this doesn't necessarily mean that the person has a worthwhile health insurance, sufficient access to healthy foods, etc. You catch my drift.
In general, however, it is a privilege to be able to buy anything beyond necessity. I think 's important to take into account also the fact that many people give up common luxuries and needs (that due to commodification become luxuries) in order to provide themselves with something that they feel will be worth the sacrifice.
11-16-05, 01:55 PM
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Hey Chimay,
Your Vanilla is quite lovely. I ride mine for the same reasons you stated, and am only out to make myself happy. So if we were to ride, how/where would I find you? You'll find me at Bogle Jr. High. Just google. Click the blue "computers" button on our home page.
Your Vanilla is quite lovely. I ride mine for the same reasons you stated, and am only out to make myself happy. So if we were to ride, how/where would I find you? You'll find me at Bogle Jr. High. Just google. Click the blue "computers" button on our home page.
11-16-05, 02:08 PM
#22
Senior Member
Originally Posted by teiaperigosa
Everyone in this society, including the most underprivileged, pays for SOMETHING that is not absolute necessity. For some it is brand name sneakers, for others it might be candy, or weed, or a cell phone, or liquor, or a second pair of clothing(or for others a 50th), or a tv, or internet etc. ...and this doesn't necessarily mean that the person has a worthwhile health insurance, sufficient access to healthy foods, etc. You catch my drift.
Not to cast stones and in the interest of full disclosure I'd probably own a dozen bikes if I had the means, and I'd certainly support frame builders and other artisans.
11-16-05, 02:51 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by mattface
If you can keep a roof above your head, and food in your stomach and still have money over for anything that isn't required to keep you fed and sheltered, then you have more money than you need.
Hippie.