610

It seems like these two/three are the most popular hubs I see around. Whenever a new manufacturer brings out a fixed gear model the first thing I hear is, "They better be Formula hubs!"

On the other end of the spectrum people will buy nothing but Phils - as if Phils are the highest quality hubs possible.

So how do these two hubs compare to each other? Are Phils really worth the money over IRO/Formula and if so, why? If you take skidding out of the equation does that make any difference?

Jim Bonnet

Phil wood hubs are a thing of beauty. Machined nice, bearings are nice.. They don't compare to IRO/Formula in that respect. Is an IRO hub going to last a long time probably. Mine are.

That said, on my road bikes I prefer dura ace. It looks great works great but costs a bunch. Would 105 stuff work just fine.. probably.

Bottom line you are paying for name and craftsmanship.

hyperRevue

Pro Max.

dolface

i've never ridden formulas, but i do ride phils.

i'm pretty sure that phils are specced tighter than formulas, they're warrantied for life (even for offroad) and they're made in the us by a company that has good labor and environmental practices.

phil wood is also VERY responsive to the requests of the cycling community, and are always willing to throw down for even the smallest alleycat.

this is NOT a dis: formulas are made in taiwan (i'm pretty sure they are anyway), and i've never seen them sponsor anything.

on the other hand, tony arms (iro, uses formula hubs in his wheelsets) is always willing to sponsor, goes to great lengths to support the community, and has the kind of onoe-on-one customer service that customers dream of.

610

sigh.. I can see the differences already. I am probably going to end up with Phils - I just wish I could get them at Formula prices for no other reason then to cry less if my bike were ever to get stolen.

Jamtastic

move to oklahoma and buy phils here. the thieves are complete idiots. hehe.

https://www.bikeforums.net/singlespeed-fixed-gear/136852-my-bike-stolen-15-25-seconds.html

Kogswell

610

Ehh. According to your website those hubs aren't good for 120 drop outs, only 135

jim-bob

https://www.kogswell.com/orders.php claims they've got 120mm flip flops.

I believe 'em.

610

I stand corrected. If you go to the product information page you wouldn't find that info.

baxtefer

those are some seriously funky locknuts.

genericbikedude

yeah--how do you adjust those poppies? those don't look like 17mm. standards are good.

manboy

I have no standards.

jim-bob

The nice thing about standards is the fact that there are so many to choose from!

Kogswell

They take an 18 or 19. Still waiting for one to go out of adjustment.

How do you adjust Gen-1 Phil Wood hubs?

lemurhouse

Antoine Doinel!!!

fixedpip

I don't think you can adjust Gen-1 phil woods.

If you're talking about the hubs where the flange is one material and the barrel/body is another (from the 70s), then you can't AFIAK. They're bonded and pressed and only someone with a buttload of knowledge and weird tools can service those.

But I'm not a Phil Wood expert and you may be talking about one of their other hubs.

Kogswell

Right. Early Phil hubs weren't adjustable. They didn't needadjustment. They were built to tight tolerances and the bearing were press fit into the shells and onto the axles. I was lucky to be living in San Jose at the time and the good folkss at were nice enough to explain it. If you make the shells and axles properly, and you use good bearings, then you just press everthing together and it all works well for a long time. Do you adjust the crankshaft bearings in you car?

Some sealed bearing hubs are thought to be adjustable. But if you talk to the guys who make them, they'll tell you that the proper way to make hubs is in the Phil Wood style: close tolerances, press fit bearings.

'Adjustable' sealed bearing hubs require less work and cost less. That seems to be the motive behind their presence in the market. But since they only cost a few dollars less, we prefer to soak up the cost and offer customers better hubs.

d_D

They are steel as well which makes them quite heavy.

I have a front phil and a 135mm rear kogswell / on-one. The phils are better design wise. You can tell a good designer spent time making sure it was done right. The only problem with phils is the bearings being placed right at the edge of the hub shell with no additional sealing.

The kogswell / on-ones in comparison are not made to the same tolerance. Mine doesn't turn as smoothly as the phils because the bearing stops on the axle are slightly closer together than those on the hub body.
The axle is also a fairly narrow diameter which coming from a mtb background makes me a little nervous. It's still nice and straight though even after a fair bit of off roading.
Then there are the large steel locknuts. They do shield the bearings but they are heavy and have 19mm flats that are just a fraction too narrow for a normal spanner. 19mm cone spanners can be hard to find in a pinch because their only other use is for a few bmx hubs. You might end up filing out a 18mm spanner.

Having said that the kogswells have good quality bearings, possibly up their with phils. The cog threads are good and the hubs are a lot cheaper than phils. For the price reason alone I don't think I would buy another phil. It's too much extra just to save a few niggles when servicing. The vast majority of the time both hubs just sit on the bike causing no problems. Servicing for a lot of riders is not even a yearly event.

ostro

i put phil spec bearings in my IRO formulas, the formula bearings took a beating after a winter of rain riding near the ocean. Although, i have never ridden phils, i would agree with most here that the phils are built to higher spec and have greater degree of bueaty, however, i honestly doubt any one of us,(please correct me if am wrong) if blindfolded would be able to tell the difference in ride between the two.

YellowFixedGear

Thats like compairing a Toyota Celica to a Acura NSX
The celica is nice but its no contest sitting next to the NSX

lemurhouse

haha

sers

Is it advisable for someone rebuild their wheels with new hubs (and spokes) if the rims are still in good condition after a year or more of use?

spider-man

No.

emayex

i <3 my phil double fix hub....ill never buy another one for the back