Bouncing in the saddle.
 

If I spin at a very high RPM, I bounce pretty intensely (going down hill or on flat). What does this mean and how do I fix it? It is sort of getting annoying heh.

Any advice?

Thanks :).

raise your seat a tad. your legs need to get a longer extension...

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c4...Picture004.jpg

And here is a picture of me on my bike if it helps at all. Forgive the gloves and pants : /... I just came back from a ride outside heh.

It's hard to tell unless your feet are at 6 and 12. When your leg is at the bottom, your leg should be bent ~ 25 degrees.

We bounce at high spin rates because we push down a little too long and the pedal starts up before we start pulling up and while we still push down, which pushes us up.

Get it?

We mash down.
While still mashing down, the pedal starts up and pushes up against our downward-mashing foot, which tends to launch our whole body upward.
The pedal comes up before we can stop mashing down.

The fix: while spinning, try to pull the bottom bracket up with both feet.
Think about it while spinning.
How would the rider so organize his spin so as to pull up on the bottom bracket while still spinning the pedals in a circle?

For some people this technique/visualization increases the spin rate almost frighteningly; to the point where, if they lose their visualization because of fear, the spin rate will almost launch them.
Don't laugh: or, go ahead and laugh.

If this works for you and you share it with someone else, please give the King of the Hipsters (me) a little credit.
Better yet, just give me some feedback in this thread.

Here I am at 6 and 12. Sorry about that : /

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c4...Picture005.jpg

i think you're seat looks to far back, but that could just be me...but yes, as ken said, but in easier wording. spin in circles. do it with one foot to get the feel for how it should feel. then do the other foot/leg. it isn't a pushdown/pullup game, circles, mang. circles.

-jason

i started to miss your highly informational posts, Ken. thanks for sharing.

i second ken. focussing on the 'up' stroke while im pedalling keeps me from bouncing.

Oh and yes. Sorry I forgot to acknowledge you Ken :). That post was very helpful. It does seem a little odd because of what I am so used to (mash mash : /), but it seems like it would make a difference.

So what you are saying is that when I press down I should also pull up with the other foot and keep constant, equal pressure with both feet?

Ken Cox is Yoda.

yes

don't PEDAL....just SPIN the cranks...think of it as if your arms were turning hand cranks....

you'll get used to it...

and I think your seat position is fine



EDIT:...if anything, I think you may want to lower it a bit...although, 's hard to tell from a picture

All of this raises a question in my mind about toe clips and straps.

I have haven't ridden with toe clips and straps for twenty-five or thirty years, when I rode geared bikes.
If I remember correctly, in order to keep my feet strapped in for the whole spin I would lean down while coasting and tighten the strap of each foot in turn; and, conversely, I would loosen the straps while coasting when I wanted to stop and put down a foot.

It seems improbable to me that a fixed gear rider could reach down and tighten/loosen his straps at the exact moment they came to the twelve o'clock position; and, so, I assume street fixed gear riders (not on the track) adjust their straps so they can pull out of them to the rear when and if needed.
If so, this would make the spin incomplete, in that the rider could not pull straight back on the pedal at the six o'clock position, and thus, this would promote the continuation of the mash and in turn the bounce.

If I have described the toe clip and strap situation correctly, several options present themselves:

1. strap in so tightly the foot can't pull out to the rear;

2. get clipless pedals and shoes/sandals;

3. over emphasize the forward push of the top foot at the twelve o'clock, so as to conceptually push the entire bottom bracket forward during the spin (instead of pulling up on the bottom bracket during the spin) and thus push the bottom foot backward with the bottom pedal; or,

4. try a Shimano Biopace chain ring (130mm BCD), which slightly extends the time the foot spends at the twelve and six o'clock positions, and thus gives the downward-mashing foot a zillionth of a second longer to transition from a mash to a pull without having to go through a backwards-pulling phase.

I like Biopace, independently of the bounce thing.

Anyway, I think number 3, above, would work best for the toe clip and strap rider.

Instead of conceptually pulling up on the bottom bracket during the spin, try finding another vector in which to push or pull the bottom bracket with the spin - perhaps mostly forward and only a little up.

I hope toe clip and strap riders will comment on this for my edification.

i kinda drop my heel to get some pull back. helps with pulling up too. i just went back to clips/straps when i broke my cleat. but i also keep mine tighter than most people i encounter daily. i also don't tuck away the excess strap, i leave it so i can grab it and pull on it to tighten, and push the buckle when i want it looser. it works nicely. just don't suck at trackstands when your feet are really strapped in. been there, done that. if clipless did one thing, it helped me nail trackstands.

+1

to reiterate...

droping your heel will allow pull back at 12/6 position...

I don't tuck the excess strap either, and I loosen and tighten the buckle while I'm on the bike (I just have to lean down to one side further so as to accomodate the pedaling)...it does work nicely...the amount of "strap" I can get is very adjustable

I suspect xthugmurderx and teiaperigosa have gotten so good at this it seems normal to them.

Salute! :)

always very helpful and insightful sir,i think the clipless pedals work best for giving you
not only the most power and control but also for help with knee pains as well.
i personally stopped using them because the kind i bought (shimano spd)
were too hard to clip out of in a flash. i will probably try some other ones this summer.
however the problem with strapping in very tightly is the same, if you have to stop because you
have to in a emergency and you cant get your feet out you are gonna fall over and that can
be bad. so i would go with adjusting the seat post and perhaps try raising your stem for
better leverage.

Are you from outer space???

did anyone mention the lack of bar tape yet?

Nope.

I just ordered some Bullhorns, so I was waiting to get those to fix up my bars.

They are rusty though : /

My wife thinks so.

The point of rubrsol's question?

I live in a remote community where I see another fixed gear rider about once every two years.
Some of the aspects of fixed gear riding that seem obvious and normal to metropolitan riders remain new and undiscovered by me.

Speaking of fixed gear riders, I actually saw only the second fixed gear rider I have ever seen, other than myself, today.
He rode a white traditional steel track bike with no front brake, and he carried a pair of snow skis over his shoulder; one hand on his bars and the other on his skis.
He rode very quickly and fluidly.
A very interesting picture.

yeah, drop your heel when your feet hit 6 o'clock. you can sort of make a motion like you're scraping gum off your feet. as far as pulling up, you can a little, but you don't get it as good with clips/straps till you're about at 3 o'clock. try pedaling with one foot at a time here and there and it'll help with your spin, as well as noticing arcs to work on (fixed gear 101 on 63xc has a bit on this that helps a lot). get a good spin and you'll stop bouncing and have better control.

I go with option #1. That's what trackstands are for.

If I rode a freewheel in the city on a regular basis, I'd almost certainly go clipless.

i don't strap in very tight. i would on rides where i don't expect much traffic, except i hate ****ing with those things. i like being able to pull my feet out if i'm falling. i actually like clipless best for that, but i have to re-buy a pair of pedals after getting rid of my road bike...

anyway, my point is that even if you don't need to take your feet out most of the time, you will if you fall, so even if you don't tighten them, you'll lose a slight bit of power across the bottom, but with the right pressure, you don't need to lose all power in any section of your spin. practice, control, etc--as with many things on a fixed gear.