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-   -   old question, new bb coming: chainline (https://www.bikeforums.net/singlespeed-fixed-gear/171373-old-question-new-bb-coming-chainline.html)

feefifofum 02-03-06 08:55 PM

old question, new bb coming: chainline
 
hi all

I am looking to get a bb for a fixie-fixer-upper. All I have right now is the frame. I am having a surly f/f rear wheel built (120 spaced dropouts). Standard 68mm shell width.

I am unsure about two things:

1. Use an old sugino triple crank or splash out on a new track crank?
2. What length spindle do I get? I'm looking perhaps at a 109 if I buy a standard track crank. But what would I get for the triple crank?

Thanks!

ffff

popluhv 02-03-06 09:01 PM

Check this out:

http://www.businesscycles.com/tr-refspec.htm#b/b

Buy a decent track crank if you intend on investing more into the bike later, go cheap if you think you may end up building or buying a whole new second bike later.

feefifofum 02-24-06 07:32 AM

pplv - tks for the link, but I still have questions.

Despite that link and Sheldon's very handy info, I am having trouble finding the right spindle to give me decent chainline (somewhere between 42.5 and 44). The deal is I have French (sugino) cups, so I need a spindle (not a cartridge.) I also want to use one of the three cheaper (than a Sugino 75) crank options:
Sugino XD (description says 110mm spindle)
Sugino RD (description says 103-107 spindle)
Sugino old triple (measured as a 118 spindle)

The nearest I can find is a Sugino length of 109mm (the sugino 75).

Has anyone tried the Xd or RD with the 109mm spindle? Does it work just fine and what chainline do you have?

many thanks again!

ffff

rithem 02-24-06 07:49 AM


Originally Posted by feefifofum
Has anyone tried the Xd or RD with the 109mm spindle?

103 gives you perfect Track chainline with the RD, w/o having to move the chainring position.

Use this 103MM BB from FSA.
kinda pricey $50-60 but it is solid.
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/images/fsa%20utimax%20bb.jpg

unless you can find a used Dura-Ace 103mm square taper BB, shimano no longer makes them.

feefifofum 02-24-06 08:07 AM

I'd love to, but that's a cartridge, and likely not French thread. Trouble is, my cups are French, so I need a spindle.

shants 02-24-06 09:41 AM


Originally Posted by feefifofum
I'd love to, but that's a cartridge, and likely not French thread. Trouble is, my cups are French, so I need a spindle.

just to throw an option with french threading out on the table....

you can buy the phil wood french mounting rings for about $35. now, of course, you don't want to spend $100 on a ****ing phil cartridge bracket, but, fear not -- you can use the cartridge from a cheap shimano un53 or 73 bottom bracket with the rings. when you buy it, you'll find that the right side cup is actually attached to the cartridge. but, you can get it off by putting the cup in a vice (not too tight, just enough to hold it in place) and pulling the cartridge out. you can then just mount it between the two phil cups.

now, of course, this will only get you down to 107mm. as i'm sure you've seen, you can buy the sugino 75 spindle separately from the full set, so you can use it (109mm) with your sugino french cups. this is actually the setup that i use on my gitane - sugino french cups with 75 spindle. www.aebike.com sells the spindle for $29.99 - http://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30...ils&sku=CR4076 . while you are at it, i strongly recommend purchasing the sugino 75 cranks at the same time on aebike ($180 with chainring - very cheap), which will save on shipping. having used the sugino rds for a long time, i have to say that they are extremely flexible. you will never regret buying the sugino 75 cranks. of course, they cost more than a set of road cranks, so, i understand if they exceed your budget.

i do not personally know very much about those other sugino cranks. however, if you go with an older shimano 105 or 600 road double, you can get a very solid chainline if you mount the chainring on the inside of the spider. i've done this with a 107mm bottom bracket on a few conversions and had a lot of luck. the sugino 75 109 spindle will add 1mm. i cannot remember 100% whether or not the 107mm setups were off at all. it's possible that the 109 will give a perfect chainline, but, if not, chances are that you can use a small bottom bracket spacer (0.5mm-1mm) on your hub to push your cog out a bit. this should still allow for proper lockring thread engagement.

if you decide on a crankset, i am relatively positive that i can help you get it working. chainline problems are my favorite.

oh, an older version of my gitane can be seen on fgg - http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/2005...aronPratt2.htm

Jamtastic 02-24-06 09:52 AM

Are campy and FSA taper the same. I have miche cranks and that 103 bb would be perfect if fsa is campy compatible.

ultraman6970 02-24-06 10:00 AM

French********************?? wow!!! hmm... I saw some french BBs at ebay a few days ago... the only thing i can say is that I read in some threads here in the forum that old suginos are ISO... so be aware of that too...

G. Luck.

ps: I have a shimano dura ace 107 spindle somewhere if u needed. It should be Jis but since I got long time ago maybe is iso

shants 02-24-06 10:06 AM

the sugino 75 spindles are definitely JIS... the FSA tapers are JIS... if it's any dura ace spindle with an NJS logo, it's JIS.

rithem 02-24-06 10:13 AM


Originally Posted by feefifofum
I'd love to, but that's a cartridge, and likely not French thread. Trouble is, my cups are French, so I need a spindle.


Sorry missed that little tidbit. Usually I read thoroughly.

ultraman6970 02-24-06 10:14 AM

Jamtastic... get the campy 102... the road one ... works perfect... or a token 102, its cheaper and a same quality than campy (carbon shell)

cya

rithem 02-24-06 10:15 AM


Originally Posted by Jamtastic
Are campy and FSA taper the same. I have miche cranks and that 103 bb would be perfect if fsa is campy compatible.

not the same ... why not use the miche BB?

ultraman6970 02-24-06 10:26 AM

FSA uses jis tapper... campy is iso and miche i think its iso too but why so long?? well the problem people reports with miche bb is that the cups tends to get lose. Or sometimes when crancking hard u get a noise... a crack noise... well i have to add that miche BB is super ugly hehehhe...

cya ;)

feefifofum 02-24-06 10:37 AM

thanks - great advice on the "RD". I wasn't aware that that crank flexed that much! Could be that you have tree trunk thighs (I don't).

In addition to $$$, my concern with the 75 crank was the bcd and the 1/8 inch chain. Don't mean to upset people who care about that kind of thing, but how easy to come by and how expensive are the c.rings in your experience? Now that I ask, I think I've only ever needed to change one chain ring in a few years of riding, so perhaps it's not really a big thing to worry about.

shants 02-24-06 10:41 AM

track chainrings are standard at 144bcd and 1/8". you should have absolutely no problems.. the 49t chainring that the sugino 75 ships with (from aebike and most places who sell it) will allow you to get a huge range of ratios with the available market of 1/8" cogs -- 12-22t or some ****.

1/8" chains run the same range in price as 3/32" chains, too.

chicagoamdream 02-24-06 10:59 AM

You also *can* run a 3/32 chainring with a 1/8" chain. It's been done.

feefifofum 02-24-06 01:45 PM

Definitely French. As French as an insouciant shrug.

shants' solution(s) may be the most decent yet.

shants 02-24-06 02:01 PM

i'm really into the idea of people riding french bikes and not getting too bent out of shape about working with the threading and sizing issues. they really aren't a big deal at all. if you have any cranks that you're curious about, just message me or ask about it in here.

feefifofum 02-24-06 04:17 PM


Originally Posted by shants
i'm really into the idea of people riding french bikes and not getting too bent out of shape about working with the threading and sizing issues. they really aren't a big deal at all. if you have any cranks that you're curious about, just message me or ask about it in here.

You can probably guess that I'm new to the whole shebang. I thought doing this build-up would be fun. Thanks for the info on the 75 crank - if only "75" was its price. Just struggling to justify splashing that kinda cash on a crank on a first-time build up. Now I also have doubts about the RD and its bendy arms.

Any thoughts on the XD? I'm thinking of trying to squeeze that puppy (description says to use a 110 spindle) on to the 109 length Sugino 75 spindle. It might work if the sugino cup walls are relatively thin.


ffff

feefifofum 02-26-06 07:54 AM

An update:

Plan is to first try a 121.5 spindle (on order from Harris Cyclery) with an old sugino triple crank that I have. The triple crank took a 118 length cartridge and I think gave about a 45 chainline. Then I plan to use the granny gear (32)with perhaps a 13 cog. The granny should give me a chainline between 42 and 44 and with a small enough cog will give me a decent gear inch.

Once I'm finished with the frame (two weeks), I'll post the results.

ffff


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