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miche hub questions

Old 04-03-06, 10:40 PM
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jmgorman
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miche hub questions

I really need to put a new wheelset together and think I'm going to go with Miche pistas laced to Open Pros, but I have a couple of questions. 1. Are these going to be reasonably durable? I don't do cross or anything, just your average urban stuff with curbs and a few stairs here and there (only when I can't be bothered to unclip.) 2. Will lacing them 3 leading, 3 trailing significantly impact the strength (when compared to 3x)? And 3, is there a difference between the Miche pista hubs offered by QBP and the ones Sheldon carries (for significantly more)?
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Old 04-03-06, 10:41 PM
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Wouldn't the QBP price be wholesale?
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Old 04-03-06, 10:47 PM
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yes the qbp price is wholesale and you would have to purchase it for the more expensive price. there is no difference
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Old 04-03-06, 10:51 PM
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qbp is just wholesale price while sheldon offers for retail price.
same hub.
you won't be able to order from QBP unless
a) you own/work at a shop
b) mad hookups to a shop, booyea!
but i'm sure your LBS will cut you some slack if you buy everything from them and get them to build up your wheelset.
*edit* darn you guys are FAST
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Old 04-03-06, 11:02 PM
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i ride mine on the street like a bmx bike.. im 160.. they seem fine so far.. and my front is laced either 1x or 2x .. depends if youre talking to me or juvi.. but that dudes a total nerd so its prob. 2x
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Old 04-04-06, 08:15 AM
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Yeah, I was using the QBP catalogue search on a LBS's website - I just assumed the price they showed me was retail. No big deal. Any more thoughts on the strength?
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Old 04-04-06, 09:21 AM
  #7  
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Originally Posted by jmgorman
I really need to put a new wheelset together and think I'm going to go with Miche pistas laced to Open Pros, but I have a couple of questions. 1. Are these going to be reasonably durable? I don't do cross or anything, just your average urban stuff with curbs and a few stairs here and there (only when I can't be bothered to unclip.) 2. Will lacing them 3 leading, 3 trailing significantly impact the strength (when compared to 3x)? And 3, is there a difference between the Miche pista hubs offered by QBP and the ones Sheldon carries (for significantly more)?
The Miche hubs listed on our site are holdovers, we didn't get them from QBP, and haven't adjusted the price. The reason for this is because we really don't recommend the Miche track hubs, mainly because they come with really cheesy nuts, and they use an oddball thread that you can't get decent track nuts for without paying ridiculous prices. They're also single sided, not flip-flop.

It is true that they're pretty, but functionally they're losers in my opinion.

We keep them on the Website because we specialize in fixed gear stuff, and like to offer a wide selection.

In my opinion the Surly, Iro and Formula hubs are much better quality and much less expensive.

Sheldon "Not A Miche Fan" Brown
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Old 04-04-06, 10:57 AM
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Sheldon - I didn't mean to imply you were overpriced (clearly this isn't the case) I just figures something was different about the hubs. I don't want to quibble (your points about the value/price and flip flop are well-taken), but how important is the nut? Do these need replaced often or are the miche track nuts just spectacular pieces of crap?
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Old 04-04-06, 11:18 AM
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I was considering using the Miche hubs to build up a set of track only tubular wheels. I was told by the wrench at my LBS that the bearings in the Miche hubs are superior to those in the Formula, Surly, and IRO hubs. I understand the whole deal with the cog carrier and such, but if I were looking to build a set of track wheels on a budget looking for minimal rolling resistance, what hubs would you recommend?
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Old 04-04-06, 11:20 AM
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I like the idea of buying a formula hub and just replacing the bearings with phils, either right away or when they need replacing.
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Old 04-04-06, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by jmgorman
Sheldon - I didn't mean to imply you were overpriced (clearly this isn't the case) I just figures something was different about the hubs. I don't want to quibble (your points about the value/price and flip flop are well-taken), but how important is the nut? Do these need replaced often or are the miche track nuts just spectacular pieces of crap?
It's not a matter of needing to be replaced often. The problem is that these hubs don't come with proper track nuts, they have one piece serrated nuts, with teeth that rip and gouge your fork ends because the serrations (teeth) rotate with the nut as you tighten it against the fork end. This rips up the surface of the fork end. They make it harder to get a good adjustment of chain tension and wheel centering.

Also, if memory serves, they use a different wrench size front/rear, which is a bit of a hemhorroid.

Looking at the QBP page: http://harriscyclery.net/page.cfm?Pa...ils&sku=HU1805

it says they use a 10 x 1 mm axle. If this is now true, they're different from the Miche hubs we've seen...those used the 10 x 26 tpi size like Campagnolo.

10 x 1 mm track nuts are readily available, and not expensive...we stock them in fact.

10 x 26 tpi, on the other hand is very slim pickings aside from the ludicrously overpriced Campagnolo track nuts.

Sheldon "Still Prefers Surly" Brown
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Old 04-04-06, 11:21 AM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by jmgorman
Sheldon - I didn't mean to imply you were overpriced (clearly this isn't the case) I just figures something was different about the hubs. I don't want to quibble (your points about the value/price and flip flop are well-taken), but how important is the nut? Do these need replaced often or are the miche track nuts just spectacular pieces of crap?
It's not a matter of needing to be replaced often. The problem is that these hubs don't come with proper track nuts, they have one piece serrated nuts, with teeth that rip and gouge your fork ends because the serrations (teeth) rotate with the nut as you tighten it against the fork end. This rips up the surface of the fork end. They make it harder to get a good adjustment of chain tension and wheel centering.

Also, if memory serves, they use a different wrench size front/rear, which is a bit of a hemhorroid.

Looking at the QBP page: http://harriscyclery.net/page.cfm?Pa...ils&sku=HU1805

it says they use a 10 x 1 mm axle. If this is now true, they're different from the Miche hubs we've seen...those used the 10 x 26 tpi size like Campagnolo.

10 x 1 mm track nuts are readily available, and not expensive...we stock them in fact.

10 x 26 tpi, on the other hand is very slim pickings aside from the ludicrously overpriced Campagnolo track nuts.

Sheldon "Still Prefers Surly" Brown
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Old 04-04-06, 11:38 AM
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The nuts that I have on mine are integrated. I don't remember them being smooth or anything, exactly, where they would grip the dropout, but don't remember anything dangerous teethwise either. I'll have to check when I get home.
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Old 04-04-06, 11:39 AM
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Thanks Sheldon - good to know.

Love this server.
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Old 04-04-06, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Matthew A Brown
The nuts that I have on mine are integrated. I don't remember them being smooth or anything, exactly, where they would grip the dropout, but don't remember anything dangerous teethwise either. I'll have to check when I get home.
You want what contacts the dropout to be grippy, however you don't want it twisting against the drop out to rip it up. If you use a nut with an integrated washer, but the washer doesn't spin independently of the nut, then when you tighten down the nut it's gripping and ripping the dropout. However, if the washer grips the dropout, and the nut can spin independently, then all is good.

When I replaced the axle on my Suzue I also got some real track nuts, definitely a better setup than plain old axle nuts.
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Old 04-04-06, 12:32 PM
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Nobody said promax yet, plus Mr. Brown got them on special.
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Old 04-04-06, 12:52 PM
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Oh, mine aren't mounted on anything, or even built up. They're sitting on a desktop. That's why I can't remember. = )
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Old 04-04-06, 12:58 PM
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My miche hubs have proper track nuts. They are 14 mm as opposed to 15mm, but thats the only real problem I see. When I switched to miche, I definately noticed a difference from the formulas.
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Old 04-04-06, 01:06 PM
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Yeah, the 2005/2006 ones with sealed bearings and different graphics have real track nuts, or mine do anyway. They look just like the ones on my Kogswell hub, and nothing like the hardware store junk on my Formula.
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Old 04-04-06, 01:10 PM
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I have no problems so far with my primatos. I have them laced to FIR MT232's and they are holding up fine. The axle nuts are indeed a bit of a nuisance because of the serrated edges that make installing the back wheel straight a bit of a pain. And I didn't know about the poor replacement situation. But I wouldn't say the 14mm nut size would be an argument against buying them. Just buy a 14 mm wrench...

The bearings are super smooth, even after a lot of hard street riding. They spin forever.
I would seriously advise against lacing them three leading, three trailing. I originally had my front wheel laced up this way and it caused the hub flanges to wobble....The Hubs ( yes the hubs) went out of true after just a 100 miles or so. I relaced them three cross ( same spoke lentgth) as quick as I could and they are absolutely fine now.

But my experience comes from the fact that the primatos were the only hubs I can buy around here ( Velocity messengers), so I couldn't say anything sensible about the alternatives.
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Old 04-04-06, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Sheldon Brown
The problem is that these hubs don't come with proper track nuts, they have one piece serrated nuts, with teeth that rip and gouge your fork ends because the serrations (teeth) rotate with the nut as you tighten it against the fork end.

Also, if memory serves, they use a different wrench size front/rear, which is a bit of a hemhorroid.

Looking at the QBP page: http://harriscyclery.net/page.cfm?Pa...ils&sku=HU1805

it says they use a 10 x 1 mm axle. If this is now true, they're different from the Miche hubs we've seen...those used the 10 x 26 tpi size like Campagnolo.

10 x 1 mm track nuts are readily available, and not expensive...we stock them in fact.

10 x 26 tpi, on the other hand is very slim pickings aside from the ludicrously overpriced Campagnolo track nuts.

Sheldon "Still Prefers Surly" Brown
[/CODE]
Sheldon - The Miche Primatos I'm running came with good quality track nuts although, as another poster points out, these are 14mm rather than 15mm size. They also definitely have 9x1 front and 10x1 rear axle threading - I eventually swapped the 14mm nuts for D-ACE track ones as I kept carrying the wrong size PB wrench with me on rides and to the track . The D-Ace nuts fit the MIche axles perfectly.
These hubs are approx 5 years old. I'm in the UK so LBS don't get these through QBP (not sure who distro is in UK) so maybe one source has very NOS versions ??
I've gotta say that I've been running these on teh street for some time and apart from a couple of bearing swapouts in 5 years or so I've found them surprisingly well made.

mickster
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Old 04-04-06, 01:50 PM
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My sealed Miches came with proper track nuts in the rear, but janky serrated nuts in the front. Both were 14mm. When I split one of the rear washers, I replaced them with DA nuts. No threading issues whatsoever.

m.
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