no. that's the point.

i remember reading somewhere that you're eleven times more likely to die in a collision if you're riding on the sidewalk than you are if you're on the street. now, it can be argued that you're safer on the street because cars can see you and you are predictable and all that noise, but it doesn't account for a factor of eleven. it's the difference in skill level between the average sidewalk rider and the average street rider that accounts for the relative mortality rates. same thing with not having brakes, they're PROBABLY stronger, more confident cyclists. the problem occurs when someone who is not a strong rider takes off their brakes before they should. fwiw i have a front brake which, like my helmet, i neither use nor apologize for.

the utility of a brake also depends on where you ride. when i was at my old job, i did 100% of my riding in boston and through a lot of traffic. i never used my brake.

now i commute 16 miles a day through the suburbs of boston and i use my brake regularly. there are 2 relatively steep hills that run down into intersections on my route, that would be really difficult to tackle without a brake. there also are a lot of hills, and i can go down them (safely) a lot faster and easer by using a brake to slow down.

as far as i'm concerned one can be safe riding brakeless. for every story about how a brake saved the day , there's another for how it exacerbated an accident.

richard - its called skipping because the motion you make with your legs is similar to skipping. I make a little hop (i usually have my right leg in front, its more comfortable but I can do it with both) and quickly pull up on my right foot and push down with my left. Sometimes the tire gets off the ground, sometimes it doesnt, but weight is taken off it to make it easier. I continue pedaling the instant the skip is over and will sometimes follow it up with another.

Agreed. and no need to apologize, im in favor of people doing whatever they are most comfortable with. I have a helmet, too (that i dont use enough cuz im an idiot. it comes out mostly when I am riding in the rain).

Wow, never realized that.
That would have been so helpful when I was learning how to do it.

yea. the day someone told me that was the day i figured out how to do it comfortably :P

haha, i mean i wear it, i just try to avoid hitting my head on stuff :D

+1 on riding how you're comfortable

god i hope we're all avoiding trying to hit our head on stuff :) hahahaha. really i do consider myself stupid for not wearing a helmet but ive never found one i was comfortable wearing. *siiigh*

All of my closest calls are on the sidewalk. Cars are looking for other fast moving vehicles on the road - they don't look for a 25mph vehicle on the sidewalk. When you drive a car, how many times do you come to a full stop before you pull onto the sidewalk. That **** is usually reserved for the road.

25mph on the sidewalk?

Lately I've been thinking about running a break, but the thing that is holding me back is I can't decide where I'd put it. I like to use all the positions on the drops and I hate the idea of having one of my hands drawn to a certain place. Of course I could just not use it all the time, but I'm lazy and probably wouldn't be able to resist.

+1, the only time I ever got hit was because I was riding on the sidewalk. It's stupid.

i like the cross lever just under the flats. it doesn't get in my hands' way, and i'm not tempted to use it. traditional road brakes are also nice because you can ride with your hands up on the brake hoods, which is a lot of people's favorite hand position.

Liar! Pizza *is* necessary!

well i think there are two schools of thought here.

skipping as in "loo, loo, skip to my..." would be called skipping because if you mini-skid several times in succession, 2x per revolution (each foot forward), it looks or feels a bit like skipping.

then there's skipping, as in a stone on water, which would be kind of like skidding, except sort of bouncing the rear tire. which i've done. and is really, really hard on the drivetrain.

For me riding brakeless is definitely more safe. And I comprehend the many of you will never understand that. You guys just read your statistics and crunch your numbers and come up with you technical answers abut how you can stop faster with brakes and blah, blah, frickin' blah. It is not always about using your brakes. I have broken many bones riding bikes, and all with brakes. I have been in accidents because I clamped down too hard on my brake and supermanned over the handlebars, or because I couldn't brake fast enough but went for the brake anyway out of instinct, or because my brakes failed to mechanical problems or weather.

For me riding brakeless is a completely different animal. I am definitely more awake, more aware of my surrounding and therefore less likely to get into get myself into a situation where I will need to stop fast. Also I know how fast I can stop with my feet, and my first instinct is not always to stop, but to avoid the accident, to turn out of the situation, which would have saved my *** many times while riding with brakes. Sure most of these techniques can be applied to bikes with a brake but who really thinks about them when you have a brake to safe you from every evil that should come your way.

I once heard someone say "if God wants you to stop you'll stop."

Also, I don't ride brakeless because it is "manly", I do it for the ladies.

It also helps a LOT, for me at least, to stay very calm when i'm riding. I've been riding brakeless for awhile and get into some pretty sticky situations with cars... so I always try and stay very, very calm when riding. No jerky movements, no nervousness, and no becoming distracted.

I think riding brakeless is all about how the rider actually rides. Just have to be smart about it.

But brakes or no brakes... bicycles = :).

Please continue to preach this to everyone you know. This will Darwin out the idiots and Darwin in those that can think for themselves.

Prove that it is 1 to 1.

And why don't you show your tag to some real "bikers" and see how long you will get to keep your knee caps.

me. never touch the thing, but i'd never ride without it there. i say so not to argue with you, because i don't doubt that riding brakeless is safer for some very skilled riders. in fact, it may be the case for a majority of messengers (i wouldn't know). you also have an excellent point that improper use of brakes can cause accidents, including very serious ones.

i would contend that someone shouldn't RELY on a single front brake. if you need it to stop, put a back one on too, because as deeps eno points out, brakes can fail.

i also contend that riding without a brake is NOT safer for most recreational riders. i get worried when i see kids on brakeless bikes who are struggling to slow the bike down at an intersection. i also get worried when i ask someone why they took their brakes off (i make sure not to do so in an accusing tone, who the **** am i to judge?) and instead of the excellent points you guys have made, i get answers like "it's badass" or "chicks dig it." i don't think these kids are stupid, i just worry that they were pressured into it.

i think DoshKel said it all.

:lol: It seems that some people need to set their brakes up better or come to the realization that they arent as good of a rider as they think they are.

Thanks 128. That might be what I do -- I'll have to pay attention to what I do when I ride home tonight.

People who claim to be "skilled riders", but have crashed because they "instinctivly grabbed" their front brake hard enough to over end themselves, are NOT "skilled riders".

I've gone over my bars once, due to my brake, and I hope to never do it again. That was two years ago. Since then, I've probably had about 10 near-misses that I avoided because I had a brake. To each his/her own, but I feel more comfortable having one.

I don't think getting into a pissing contest over who has more mad bike skillz is especially productive. The person who panicked and clenched down on their brake may be a far more "skilled" rider than the person who's been lucky enough to avoid crashing their brakeless bike. Or vice versa. It's a little hard to judge based on a few sentences.

but hey, it's the internet, right? argue it up!

Regarding skidding/skipping versus slowing down:

According to the laws of physics, one actually decelerates faster if one does not break the force of static friction. If you do that one is now has kenetic friction.

"The coefficient of kinetic friction is typically denoted as μk, and is usually less than the coefficient of static friction."

Basically, the force required to continue start skidding is MORE than the force required to continue skidding. This also means that the force that is being exerted by the friction, that is being used to halt your motion, is LESS if you are stopping by sliding than if you are stopping by not sliding.

To put it in layman's terms, slowing down stops you faster than sliding.


Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frictio...nt_of_friction







Don't believe me? This is the whole idea behind anti-lock brakes on cars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-lock_brakes

...and Traction Control

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traction_control

nice, i'm always glad to see some other nerds on here. i think you might be oversimplifying a bit. the MAXIMUM force due to static friction is the coffecient mu_s times the normal force (the force with which your tire is pressing on the pavement, or as defined, the force with which the pavement is pushing back up on the tire). the actual force is just the equal and opposite of the force being applied (that's why we don't go flying backwards every time we get on our bikes) i'd venture a guess that none of us here applies that maximum amount of force *uniformly* through two or more revolutions of the pedals. doing so would require some serious strength and pedaling technique.

also the force due to kinetic friction is the coefficient mu_k times the NORMAL force. when you skip it's like doing a very little bunny hop, your center of gravity goes up (here's where you begin the skid, while the normal force is low) and then goes down (the normal force is much higher than it was when we were just sitting on the bike). higher normal force means higher friction means stopping sooner. come on out to a pirate ride for a demo! (seriously, come on out)