dutret

Do you climb in the drops on bikes that have hoods? Are y'all just a wierd group of freaks with physiology completely different from the rest of the cycling world where being more upright/forward is the most efficenct way to climb.

Yes comfort is a personal thing I just find it much emore plausible that the use of track drops is a style issue that people have convinced themselves is comfortable rather then a case where a specific group of people who are in general more concerened about classic style then the average cyclist all have the same phsyiological abnomalities that make them more comfortable/efficient riding on outdated equipment then the rest of the cycling world.

hyperRevue

Well, until you know for sure, you should probably stop talking out of your ass.

dutret

does this mean you don't have much experience riding a bike with hoods and are just "talking out your ass" when you say the drops give you more power then the hoods or did you ignore my question for some other reason?

I can say with reasonable certainty that the track bike population is in general not disproportiate freaks who would have vastly different ergonomic needs then the rest of the cycling world.

onetwentyeight 

Yesh. I dont think most people are powering around when they have the hands by the stem. I put my hands by the stem when I'm just cruising around and being lazy. the upright position is a nice little break, and because I'm going slower the less responsive handling is not an issue. I find the shoulders to be very comfortable, and where I spend 80% of my time. I'll be putting some grips up there in a few days just to make it even more so. I tilted my bars about 5% up from having the drops parallel w/ the ground just to make it more comfortable on my wrists. That set up has been treating me well since I dumped bullhorns late last year. I also found scooting my seat forward a little and raising my stem about 1/3 of an inch made a lot of difference.

dutret

I'm not saying track drops are good or bad. I am saying most people ride them to conform to a stylistic ideal. That is only good or bad depending on your own personal values. However let's call a spade a spade here. Track bars are stylish an elegant but not incredibly versatile and usually not comfortable.

hyperRevue

Why bother splitting the cycling community into track vs. road. Why not look at everyone individually and let he or she be the one who decides what is comfortable for him/herself. Lumping people into catagories and prescribing them a set of characteristics and preferences is pointless.

And to answer your question, which I ignored because your 2nd statement was more interesting to me, I don't have any experience riding bars with hoods but I assume that it's similar to riding a bike with bullhorns. And of the two, I find the drops of track bars more comfortable.

tokidokizenzen

One common cause of neck pain is when you are leaning forward too much. This could be a case of your frame being too big or the stem being too long. A simple way to see if this is the case; next time you ride, position yourself towards the front of your saddle. Pain, no pain or less pain will give you more insight on what to do next..

sers

back when i was riding my road drops, visibility while on the drops was sort of an issue in traffic. i got used to rolling my eyes up to see before moving my head back, but it still didn't provide the same level of peripheral vision. eventually i just shifted to riding the tops and the hoods most of the time, and reserving the drops for headwinds, rain, and sprinting.

dutret

Note this is not track vs road but rather the people who ride fixies on the road It is reasonable to look at them as a group because they are the only group of which a significant portion will assert that hoodless track drops are versatile and comfortable.

dirtyphotons

you are, most unequivocally, saying that they are bad. which is fine, but you really should own up to it.

yes, lets.

rather than saying, perhaps you ought try asking. you clearly have some predisposed notions about bars and more generally about people who ride track bikes. if you want to assert your superiority, go enter a race. if you want to know why people prefer the components they do, use your indoor voice. and go raise your bars.

hyperRevue

I don't think it's reasonable in the slightest to make general assumptions about a group of people. It's indicative of ignorance and/or laziness.

I find hoodless track drops both verasatile and comfortable, and I have not forced myself to think so just for the sake of fashion. Others on here might find them uncomfortable. Hell, some on here very well may have forced themselves into a state of mind for fashion. The point is, every single rider has a difference preference and a different reason for doing something and you need to stop making generalizations because, as I said, they're indicative of ignorance and/or laziness.

dutret

no good and bad are based on values. I am saying they are less versatile which according to my value system means they are not as good for anything but track racing. However I accept that other peoples value systems are different and therefore they may be better.

The problem with asking is that people often do not know the real reason why they do things.

If people claim they are more comfortable on hoodless track drops it may be that they are. However bars have evolved away from that style over the past 3 decades. The vast majority of the cycling population find these newer bars more comfortable and versatile. That means that either the people in this forum are generally physiological freaks OR their stated reason is not the real underlying reason.

I think that this latter explanation is much more plausible. Especially when it is espoused by people who don't really have experience riding anything else.

I am curious what sean zero mpg and others who spend alot of time on road bikes have to say about this. Especially people who have lots of experience on nice road bikes that predates their experience riding around on track drops.

Those of you who fit this criterea please chime in.

hyperRevue

I'd argue that the vast majority of the cycling population does not have much experience with hoodless track drops. I'd take it a step further to say those of the "street fixed gear" community have more experience with road drops/bullhorns/mustache/risers etc... than roadies do with hoodless track drops.

dutret

but they have steadily moved away from classic 70's road drops that where much more similiar to them as well as repositioned and designed the brake hoods to make them less and less like riding on the shoulders of track drops.

hyperRevue

What?

ZachS

this thread is cracking me up. it's just like debates in "road cycling" about various bits and pieces of CF bling --

basically, i wonder why do people feel the need to justify their aesthetic decisions by claiming that they serve some higher purpose? aesthetics is a good enough reason on its own to justify just about any bike-related purchase or equipment choice. period.

aesthetics can also make your neck and bank account hurt.

queerpunk

this doesn't need to turn into an argument about bar choice.

some people find track bars acceptable for street riding. others find them uncomfortable and limiting. both have good reasons. if you fall into the latter, you might want to consider other bars. if you fall into the former, then, all right.

Aeroplane

Best line in this thread. I tell people why they like stuff all time. How would they know if I didn't tell them?

Heraclitus

Because they do not want to be mistaken for "hipsters"?

But we are all cyclists... even those of us who have been graced with an aesthetic sense big enough to match our huge calves.

mihlbach

This argument is less irrelevant with a quill stem. Neck hurts on long ride?...pullout you multitool and raise your stem. Turn into a strong headwind?..lower your stem.

Moving to the threadless headset was a huge unfortunate setback for cycling in general.

Placid Casual

Or it could be that the "vast majority of the cycling population" whose requirements drive the changes in road bar design don't spend an awful lot of time riding single speed / fixed gear bicycles in city traffic. Just saying.

dutret

So why would track drops be best for city traffic?
The top flat part is much narrower so they handle worse yet they allow no more clearence then road drops. The drops are either low and make it hard(see title of thread) to look up and see whats going on around you or are so high they don't provide an aero position for the vicious winds that whip through the canyons of the urban landscape.

Why would they be better for single speed/fixed riding?
SS/FG MTBrs use wider bars and keep them higher and are possibly more likely to use bar ends then most other xc riders since they are willing to sacrifice clearance(yes clearence is a big issue in xc riding) for the added leverage they are able to get when really cranking on the pedals in their only gear. Track drops on the other hand allow only one hand position that allows a really firm grip on the bars and any reasonable amount of leverage. Width aside, since maybe clearance is a bigger issue in the cites, the drops are illsuited to apply the extra force ss/fixed gear riding requires since the height of them prevents using your back/shoulder muscles as much as you could with higher bars.

So unless you care to refute any of these points or come up with some specific reasons for your statement I think it is safe to say the the only reason track drops are popular with urban riders is because they fit a particular aesthetic that happens to be popular in urban areas. In fact it seems functionally it seems track drops are even worse for city riding then other applications.(except maybe for the short length of many urban riders trips.

Once again there is nothing wrong with doing things for aesthetic reasons but lets not lie to ourselves and noobs coming for advice. I am willing to admit that I switched a seatpost from my track bike to my road bike purely for aesthetic reasons.

Also how realistic is it to suggest adjusting stem height whenever you round a corner? I have never seen anyone do that and it doesn't seem very practical.

onetwentyeight 

Narrow bars make it easier to squeeze through traffic, and the graceful curve makes the shoulders a really good medium between being on the tops and being down in the drops without sacraficing much handling sensitivity. That and, as you mentioned, they are purty.

dutret

being on brake hoods would give you even better handling since
-Your hands are further out without increasing the clearance of the bar
-You have a better grip then you would on the shoulders
-Usually they are in the exact right fore/aft position to provide the best handling.
-They are more ergonomic so you can stay in the position that gives you the best handling longer.

You can get narrow road drops too They will give you the same clearence as the track drops but you will be able to position your hands further out and so have better leverage too.

onetwentyeight 

- being further out would cause me to be too stretched out, bringing back the neck pain that the OP was talking about when looking forwards. I'm thinking about getting a shorter stem because I find myself way forward on my seat all the time, and my seat is already as far forward as it will go to give me a little more power in acceleration.
- I have grips on the shoulders specifically for comfort and erm... grip.
- I tilt my bars up a tad to make them more comfortable on my wrists.
- track bikes are designed to give the best handinling in the drops, end of story. If I wanted to be further out I wouldn't be riding frames with compact geometry damn things twitchy enough as is.