RedDeMartini

Cars are the leading killers of Americans after cancer and heart disease. Since guns kill relatively few people and are heavily regulated, perhaps we ought to do the same for drivers. Driving is one thing, but reckless drivers, aggressive drivers, drunk drivers, exhausted drivers, drivers who talk or text on the phone, eating, reading, sleeping, etc. are far more dangerous to Americans than guns, Al Quaeda etc. Yet, most drivers are given a slap on the wrist, few are deprived of their drivers license, and for the most part driving is seen as "a right not a privilege".

Perhaps we ought to push for more car control just as we have pushed for gun control.

*drivers who are on the phone are less aware of their environment. Driving on the phone is not comparable to drinking and driving, but to driving horribly drunk. (levels where you would not be able to walk often). This has nothing to do with hands, but with the mental state of the conversant.

Bikes do not need to justify their existence. Cars do.

hyperRevue

Guns are heavily regulated?
Where do you live?

onetwentyeight 

https://bikeforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=8

iluvfreebeer

soccer moms talking on the cell phone and putting on make up while driving the Suburban are far more dangerous than any gun.

RedDeMartini

WDC

jyossarian

When people die by the gun, reactionaries can blame gangsta rap, 50 cent and GTA:SA for glamorizing gun violence. When people die by the car, who are reactionaries gonna blame? The Big 3? Verizon Wireless, Cingular and Nextel? Avon and Maybelline?

lyeinyoureye

How often does someone kill (not counting themselves) on a bike?

humancongereel

no stats, but i've only ever heard of one such incident.

abeyance

Do tell...

CF4L

not to be captain "Car Defender"... but our current society could not exist without "cars". you know that bike youre riding. well it was delivered by a truck at some point... hell, probably at alll points. cars allow us to do more in this society than ever imaginable. trust me, i love local farms, and local frame builders, and local bike shops. but that just isnt how it is right now. maybe that will change, kinda like how when people lived in cabins everyone had a gun, but right now, cars are a necessity. they might not be directly in your hands, but everything you buy, everything, was transported by them at one point.

don't like cars. ride your bike to the farm to buy all your stuff. and make sure that frame was built with locally produced steel from locally produced iron.

/end semi drunk rant

humancongereel

i hate--HATE--arguments like this. we're talking about CARS. you're talking about TRUCKS. there's no hypocrisy in hating cars and riding a bike that a truck shipped because you're not even looking at the point. all goddamn internal combustion vehicles are not ****ing cars.

if all that were on the road were delivery trucks, i'd be happy. i tolerate cars, just barely, but there doesn't need to be even half the traffic out there that there is, and it's not the fault of companies shipping things, but some lardass jumping in an SUV to run to mcdonald's for another McLardassBurger.

humancongereel

i just heard of one ped that got hit and smacked his/her head on something and got killed. i don't know **** about it. just that it happened in portland while i was living in idaho and i missed it, but apparently it got people pissed at cyclists. funny how one person gets hit by a bike and everyone's mad, but how many people do cars kill and no one says ****?

Dogbait

There was this one in Corvallis last September... some interesting comments.

Cyclist kills Pedestrian

Aeroplane

Jay Leno would become the chairman of the NCA (National Car-drivers Association) and they would instantly replace the NRA as the largest lobbyist organization in the country, arguing that cars are "an essential part of American culture, and granted by the Constitution".

eddiebrannan

i like cars

queerpunk

i try to get in a couple each week.

celephaiz

um, i don't understand. So if it's about the mental state of a conversant, can you explain how it's different from say, having two people in the car talking? I mean if it isn't a hands thing, then it's a conversation thing... so are we now at the point where we insist that people not carpool because they might be inclined to talk to each other and, therefore, drive as though they were horribly drunk?

Or is it that the people who are inclined to have intensive conversations on a cell phone while doing anything from walking to driving and shutting out the entire outside world, are that dangerous when behind a car... if that's the case, ok, i agree but you can't legislate people's personalities and individual habits.

If it's a handsfree thing, once again, I understand but you specifically said it wasn't.

acavengo

I have more trouble with pedestrians crossing the street in droves during don't walk signs than I do with cars. Cutting through 20 or more people that are crossing the street illegally (an arrestable crime in NYC soon?) is not always an option b/c if I hit them, I am the one that will pay in more ways than one. I am almost guaranteed to encounter this pedestrian issue when cutting crosstown, but I can go much longer without having a confrontation with a driver of a car.

ROACHTRAP

Of course cars are more dangerous...more people own cars then guns. They also give licences to every meathead who can pass that insanely easy driving test.

timmhaan

actually, i could be wrong about this, but i believe i read a statistic saying there are more cars in the US then there are licensed drivers. which doesn't surprise me at all. so, i guess you could say "almost everyone owns at least one car".

666pack

cars kill people.
gun don't kill people.

i, on the other hand, do kill people.

RedDeMartini

"not to be captain "Car Defender"... but our current society could not exist without "cars". you know that bike youre riding. well it was delivered by a truck at some point... hell, probably at alll points. cars allow us to do more in this society than ever imaginable. trust me, i love local farms, and local frame builders, and local bike shops. but that just isnt how it is right now. maybe that will change, kinda like how when people lived in cabins everyone had a gun, but right now, cars are a necessity. they might not be directly in your hands, but everything you buy, everything, was transported by them at one point.
don't like cars. ride your bike to the farm to buy all your stuff. and make sure that frame was built with locally produced steel from locally produced iron.
end semi drunk rant"


Hmmm....

What you are referring to is industrialization, not cars. If you read the full post you will see that I am not taking the simplistic and impractical notion that we should all stop driving...NOW!.
(as can be seen in the ubiquitious "cars are coffins" t-shirts, mugs, etc. )

My statement was that we ought to treat cars the way we treat guns. Dangerous items that are useful for some jobs but dangerous when mishandled. Trucks are certainly useful, cars are convenient but one car per person in an urban center is really a luxury and a silly one. It is the transportaion equivalent of wearing a mumu. Comforable and convenient.

Allthough the internet is significantly less dangerous than either cars or guns it has been known to do injury, so please choose a designted typist before you drink.

sprouts

obviously bicyclists need to start carrying guns.

RedDeMartini

um, i don't understand. So if it's about the mental state of a conversant, can you explain how it's different from say, having two people in the car talking? I mean if it isn't a hands thing, then it's a conversation thing... so are we now at the point where we insist that people not carpool because they might be inclined to talk to each other and, therefore, drive as though they were horribly drunk?

Or is it that the people who are inclined to have intensive conversations on a cell phone while doing anything from walking to driving and shutting out the entire outside world, are that dangerous when behind a car... if that's the case, ok, i agree but you can't legislate people's personalities and individual habits.
If it's a handsfree thing, once again, I understand but you specifically said it wasn't.

Okay, I didn't think it was necessary to explain this, but here goes.
When you are driving (consciously) not merely sititing in the drivers seat of a vehicle in motion, your brain is in a certain responsive state. You are paying attention ot outside stimuli and responding accordingly. Most of the time your passengers are more or less in a similar state and conversations remain on a level appropriate to the situation. Overly distracting conversations do result in a distracted state and thus a very much increased level of accidents.
How many times have you seen someone run a stop sign when they are in an argument?
Because of the nature of phone conversation and the fact that you are speaking to someone outside of the car you are almost certainly not having a car appropriate conversation and the remote conversant will not know to stop talking when you are trying to merge or another complex task.

Therefore, the driver on the phone is nearly always in a distrated state, it is simply difficult to prove because unlike alcohol, it leaves no measureable trace. Additionally, it is quite common and thus it is unpopular to increase the penalties. In a democracy the minority is always in danger of exploitation.

The hands-free issue was invented by the phone companies to make a show of improving the abyssmal driving record of their customers. I can drive as well with one hand as with two, as I grew up driving a manual transmission I learned at an early age to control the car with one hand elsewhere.
However, I also know that my mind cannot be elsewhere. Since I am piloting a heavy vehicle at great speeds I know that in an instant I can kill or maim anyone that gets in my way. I know that my reflexes are the only hting preventing this. The law may sometimes shield me, but it remains my responsibility to prevent these accidents.

The only way to accomplish this to respect the dangers of driving, just as you respect the power of a firearm.

Bikes on the other hand, rarely kill anyone(even the rider).

Except in Ireland which used to have a nationwide problem with head on collisions between intoxicated cyclists returning from the pub on dark nights and causing mutual grievious injury and even death.

ZachS

+1

+1million