Whose responsibility? (attn: Skidmark)
 

so I can't participate in This thread anymore. The typical Oregon cyclist attitude has enraged me to the point of blindness.

Let's take a poll here:

Whose responsibility is it if a cyclist runs a red light, or violates an incorrectly-perceived law by riding a bike with no handbrakes? Is it:

A) The cyclist's responsibility. One must take responsibility for one's own actions. If there's no harm, there's no foul.

B) The police's responsibility. The police are the protectors of the general order. They are also the only ones who can write citations.

C) Everybody's responsibility. The actions of one cyclist can make all cyclists look bad, so call out people for doing things you don't agree with.

please discuss

I'd say C, cause there is a negative impact on everyone else regardless of whether or not motorists are in the right for generalizing jerky moves to all cyclists.

a to a point and c to a point.

edit:
i also frequently run lights and stop signs after checking if it's clear, but i don't think that if "there's no harm, there's no foul." i know that i'm breaking laws and potentially endangering myself, but i feel it is my responsibilty to deal with any repercussions legally or otherwise...

that said, i do think my behavior and other cyclists' behaviors contribute to the greater image of cyclists... i don't want that hick in the truck to run me off the road because he's pissed off from the actions of other cyclist. so, when i could potentially run a clear red light, and if it's rush hour with lots of other motorists around, often times i'll just wait it out and be a good cyclist. red lights are great for practicing trackstanding.

i'd like to hear from other cyclists if they think i'm out of line... unless they're riding a recumbent.

A) I run red lights and stop signs. Sometimes. When it's safe, and after I slow down and check all directions. I am fully aware of the laws that I am breaking, and I know that my safety is my responsibility at all times, and soley mine whenever I'm doing something like proceeding through a stoplight. That said, I don't expect respect from motorists, but I don't act like a jerk generally, and the motorists are all pretty nice on my commute. Cops can take an interest if they choose. I deserve any tickets I get, but haven't yet.

edit: I'm all for someone calling out if they don't agree with my actions, just don't be uppity.

I would pick the first option. However, even if it is always the cyclists responsiblity on what he does, there are people out there that should not be running red lights and acting like they are a ****ing god out on the road. This is when a lot of people are endangered by this cyclist.

every area is different, every stoplight is different, every time is different, and traffic conditions change. There's one light on my commute that has 2-3 minutes of safe time when it's completely clear for a cyclist to proceed against the red, illegal as it may be. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. I NEVER 'blow' a light... I'm not crazy.

A. You're responsible for your own actions. I run reds and stop signs, but I slow down and check to make sure it's clear before doing so. That doesn't make what I do any less illegal, but for my own safety and the safety of others, I do it this way. I don't come down on cyclists who blow past reds and stop signs because they may be better at checking for clearance and reading traffic than I am so what seems like recklessness is actually a calculated move w/ regard to traffic clearance and conditions.

As for C, I can see both sides of the argument. As a smaller group, we're more prone to antagonistic behavior. However, it's also like saying drivers that run red lights give all other drivers a bad name. If we look at riding a bike as a privelege rather than a right, it becomes something that can be taken away from us for the actions of a few bad apples.

WTF, is this a real question? When is it anything but A? Why should other people EVER be held responsible for the actions of somebody else (barring some events in the parent-child relationship)? Am I missing something here?

I also run redlights and stop signs. I realize that I am breaking the law, and I am willing to be held responsible for my actions if something should happen. I have never put myself or others in danger when doing so. I have never run a redlight with cars coming or almost been hit or hit any one at a stop sign, so I don't think my actions reflect poorly upon cyclists. I'm not doing anything dangerous to myself or others. I also (reluctantly) agree that cops are responsible for upholding the law, and if they see fit, they could issue me a ticket and I would be deserving of it according to the law.

Edit: I forgot that some people are idiots... If people are being dangerous and causing injury, then obviously it is the cyclists responsiblity to pay for damages, and if need be, the police would get involved in the matter to inforce this. I think that by saying that it is "everyone's" responsibility, you would be saying it was my responsibility to make sure everyone was riding safe. That makes no sense. I can't stop you from doing something and I can't change your actions in the future just by vocalizing my opinions.

A is the only option.

I can't argue the laws because Boise has some of the most liberal cycling laws I've come across. If a four way stop is clear, you don't have to come to a complete stop on a bike. If you come to a complete stop at a stoplight, and it's clear, you can procede on a bike. The last one is there because bicycles won't trigger the loop sensors.

If a cyclist runs a red light, the cyclist is responsible for his actions and the subesequent results of running that red. If he ran the red light and hit a ped, it's the cyclist's fault. If he ran the red and got hit by a car, it's still his fault. It's too bad he got hit by a car, but then again, he illegally ran the red. Same thing if he rides without a handbrake.

The police have nothing to do with the cyclist's decisions, good or bad, on his bike. They do have the right to ticket the cyclist if his actions result in the breaking of certain laws.

I don't believe it is every cyclist's responsibility to educate every newb out there. Let the bike industry supply all the brochures and info and then leave it up to the cyclist to read up on it. It is his responsibility to read up on the local laws and the rules of the road. If a cyclist runs a red light, I'm not going to chase him down and educate him on the rules of the road and the possible results of his actions. When you're driving somewhere and someone cuts you off as they swith lanes without signaling, you're not going to follow that person to their destination and then tell them that they should signal when switching lanes because they could cause an accident.

Seems like today's society wants everything handed to them on a silver platter. They want to do anything and everything yet take no responsibility when things go wrong. It's the other person's fault. It's society's fault. **** that *****!!!! Take responsibility for you own actions! And don't ******* blame me or society when you get hurt or hurt someone else as the result of your stupid, ****ed up decisions. Own up.

I'll occasionally run reds and stop signs only after checking the intersections and sidewalks for cars and peds. I also ride without a handbrake. If I get a ticket, I get a ticket. I knowingly broke the law and chose to do so. My actions, my responsibility.

That kicks ass

I agree with what most folks have already said, take responsibility for your own actions. I run ride lights pretty frequently, and I ride brakeless. I also ride intelligently and cautiously.

If I **** up it's my own damn fault. The same is true for everyone else out there, whether you're biking or walking or driving or riding a camel or whatever it is that you do.

+1

I've lost more skin than I care to think of doing stupid $hit on my bike (99% was off road away from cars). When it's my fault, I just walk it off and move on.

I could care less what some douch does on his bike. They don't make me look bad. If some prick p!sses off someone in a car, to the point of the driver taking it out on me, just some cat riding his bike... I'll u-lock the hell out of the driver. Said driver will then learn lesson (a).

Ultimately, the only person who can be responsible for his/her actions is him/herself. The problem arises that many drivers seem to have the attitude of old racists. "Somebody who was this color once stole my wallet so now I hate everybody that color." Its stupid, and doesn't make any sense, but I think a lot of drivers only notice the cyclists doing stupid stuff. They may pass 50 bikes on their way to work, but the only one they notice is the one who runs a red while they are sitting at the light. From that they decide that all cyclists are irresponsible.

b.

while i dont have a hand brake, and run redlight, and cut off cars. its still the police responsibility to protect the general public, "no harm no foul" is a horrible idea its like as long as drunk drivers dont kill anybody and hurt anything they can drink and drive, because they are probably going to hurt someone sometime.

ehhhh, im drunk writing this, if I say something dumb oh well

A.

too much double nagatvitiness in that for my brain to process...whats this mean?