The cutting width of bolt cutters is based on how far they can open and still provide enought leverage to cut a bolt. Many can open farther near the mouth and crushing a rim should take a miniscule amount of force compared to cutting hardened steel.

I have only ever seen a handful of bikes locked with sheldons method compared to dozens every day locked though only a wheel. Only a small percentage of these do I ever see the wheel after the theft.

I have never said that bolt cutters are the only method to cut or break a rim. However logically to support the claim that it is easy to break a rim I only have to provide one example where it is easy. To make the opposite claim one much show how hard it is hard with every feasible method.

My guess is that bolt cutter would be easier then cutting up to 18 spokes and breaking the rim at the seam. It would be interesting to do a comparison. Maybe if I go home at christmas I can find a crap wheel in my parents shed, tension it properly and get some bolt cutters at a pawn shop to do the test.

lots of good info here- bolt cutters, cable cutters, grinders, jacks all of it awesome- if someone wants something bad enough they're gonna get it- if man made it man can break it

I use "mini" u-locks for typical neighborhood riding, and never have a problem finding a pole to lock to. A "mini" u-lock will fit around a rear wheel with a tire 35mm wide, or less, and a typical traditional parking meter pole, or typical traffic sign pole that is mounted in concrete.

Sometimes the "best" locking pole is thirty or forty yards from the shop I'm going to, but I'd rather be locked up securely, and walk thirty yards then to lock to a flimsy $30 bike rack directly in front of the shop.

In theory, a crook with expensive power tools can steal a bike that uses the "rear wheel - mini U-lock" method in under ten minutes. But, I've never seen a documented, proven case of a bike that was stolen that where the "Sheldon Brown" method was used with a "gold" rated u-lock attached to a beefy steel pole that was set in concrete.

Why does the "Sheldon Brown" method never fail in "real life"? Crooks are often dumb, but not as dumb as a rock. The majority of bikes are locked with cable locks, or with oversized, but flimsy u-locks from Wal-Mart or K-Mart. That allows those bikes to be stolen in under one minute using a silent, portable tool.

You would have to be the world's biggest idiot to ignore a dozen bikes locked with crummy locks to target a bike that combines a Kryptonite Fahgettaboudit u-lock with the "Sheldon Brown" rear wheel lockup method.

www.soldsecure.com/Leisure.htm

You can say that again. At a local eatery, there used to sit,
on the corner, an unfastened rickety old bike rack. I would
never use it because it was obviously a POS that would only
be a slight hiccup for a bike thief. Instead, I would lock to
one of the innumerable parking meters, and let the college
kids leave their Huffys and Magnas on the rack. Anyway, late
one night, some fellows in a pickup truck rolled up, hopped
out, lifted the rack onto the truck (it's small, only 4" or so),
and drove off into the North side with a sizeable collection of
bikes.

You miss the point then. What ulock you use has nothing to do with it since any ulock is harder to cut then the rim will be. Unless your locking to hardened steel racks cemented into the sidewalk the fahgettaboudit lock is an exercise in waste. Any $40 lock will be harder to circumvent then the signpost or whatever you're locking it too.

And you in turn miss one of many points in favour of Sheldons method, namely that defeating the wheel or the post it's locked to makes or leaves a bike unridable and/or reduces the thieves net gain significantly. This and other advantages to Sheldons method is why I have to insist you are wrong to state that the Sheldon method is wrong & that Sheldon is wrong. Like I said, it has it's strengthes & weaknesses & is only different, Not Wrong.

Definitely not true. Don't underestimate the crappyness of some locks. Also, the lock is at least a good target to attack. A wheel has nasty tricks up its sleeve like a 7bar tyre that explodes with a *really* loud bam if you go at it with a bolt cutter. It also tosses a couple of rubber shreds in your face. Anyway, this discussion is getting rather silly...

That's why lock threads are fun, they always devolve into talk about tools & such, who here on a cycling forum can resist talk of tools, computers or other gadgetry. No one I know.

Maybe this person shoulda coulda woulda read about such things, you see this a lot in TOhttp://static.flickr.com/35/103963107_3f9b5598c0.jpg

But that clearly doesn't deter theives since so many bikes get stolen in an unrideable condition. If you wanted it rideable you could easily steal a nearby unlocked wheel anyway. I never said the method was wrong. I said his assertions about how hard it was to defeat were wrong. A locking method can't be wrong. How much security it provides can vary. His method provides far less security the the u-lock is capable of providing.

Even this method is not wrong. It provides little security but it isn't wrong that doesn't make sense.
http://static.flickr.com/93/271461782_6fc8b47ad5.jpg

If I was to assert that it was hard to defeat because you would have to cut a thick cable that would be wrong.



LoFarkas:
I specifically said you deflate the tire first. Yes some locks are really crappy but there are decent locks available in the sub $30 range. Spending 3 times that on Fahgettaboudit if you are using sheldons method makes no difference in how long it takes to steal the bike.

I think it's time to take a step away from the focus here and realize that a thief/group of thieves can steal any bike no matter how it's locked. If you're locking your bike outside, there's a chance it will be stolen. There's teams of thieves with every tool in their vans going around stealing bikes, day and night. I prefer to be the ******* that takes my bike inside absolutely everywhere and if I can't, I go somewhere else. In the rare instances, I have the Fahgeddaboudit chain, but I know that it can be cut whether it's bolt cutters (there's MUCH bigger cutters out there than 42"), an angle grinder, freeze spray and a hammer, whatever.

As for the wheel lock-up ordeal, it's definitely possible to cut through wheels very quickly. Tension of the wheel or whether the rim is nice or not means nothing.

I sound bitter, it's because of Philadelphia. Our thieves here are awesome.

Do you take a shower in a fullface helmet? Cuz a bunch of peolpe crack their skull by slipping in the bathtub, and a cracked skull is worse than a stolen bike (or is it?... I think if you die it is).

Anyway, any reasonable person will try and limit the chances of getting their bike stolen w/ a number of methods, (buying 1 or 2 good locks and using them cleverly being some of the most important), instead of walking around with a bike inside the corner store like a fool. Which brings us to why this thread is relevant.

Ther is more to Sheldons method & the page it's on that I thought you were taking into account. He recommends, same as you, something that deters the thieves that have only one of the 2 most common tools at hand. His method does both with one lock. Hacksaws are not quick against a good U-lock or a tensioned wheel (w/out deflating, untensioning etc) Bolt cutters are not quick against a good u-lock or a wheel (same reasons) & a failed attempt by a thief learning this lesson would likely damage only your wheel, not your frame or even your lock.

Taken out of context, Sheldon is wrong. In the context of the page that paragraph is lifted from he is not wrong.

And yeah, big city, you gotta take all things into account. Opportunistic losers steal the most bikes IMO, they walk w/tools, steal, ride & trade for drugs. The organized bike thieves can indeed take anything but in a big city like philly or NYC or TO they only have real good pickings among people silly enough to leave it locked outside all night, the worst possible thing you can do, leave it out at night.

So you assert. I'm willing to wager they are pretty good against a wheel. If not you can use them to cut spoke and break the wheel with your method.

His method is easily attacked with one tool. End of story. It may be bolt cutters or it may be cam style hand clippers(useful against small- meduim cables or your spokes) you only need to break the wheel or the u-lock not both. With a cable and a u you need two different tools and you have to defeat both locks in order to steal the bike.

You youself posit that the wheel could be quickly broken(quicker then three snips of some bolt cutter) by breaking it at the seam. How can you logically support Sheldon's assertion that it is hard to break then you would think(it would take longer then cutting through an untensioned rim with a hacksaw) becuase your saw blade would bind. Any sawing is going to be slower then three snips and you admit it can be done faster then that.

A hacksaw would melt through extruded aluminum in mere seconds once the tension is removed, I thought you knew enough about hacksaws to say I clearly don't know much about them.

I put forth my method to break it quickly yes, & it would be easy, just not to cut through the rim itself with b/c. The way I suggest is faster true, faster than large unwieldly b/c. Thanks! I thought up something Sheldon missed! Too bad it's only useful to thieves.

"Believe me, this just doesn't happen in the real world."

Never seen it, never heard of it happening & you only would if everyone locked their bikes that way. It pollutes the prize for the majority of thieves which is the greatest deterrent there is against the greatest number of thieves there are. Just ask your tweak friends. It's the combination of all the steps that is the deterrent, the time wasting of it all. Most thieves attack one, just one, point of defense.

Or because it provides a counter example which disproves sheldon's claims. That is useful to people weighing the security provided by his method when making an informed choice of whether to use it or not.

My guess is that it would take tens of seconds to hacksaw though a rim... less then it would take to cut with with boltcutter even in multipe cuts. Also less time then it would take to jack open or saw though a U.

Yes, we've all seen the poor orphan wheels...but have you (or anybody on the list) ever known of a bike being stolen by cutting the rim? I have never heard of any instance of this happening.

Sheldon "Difficult, Not Impossible" Brown

No but I've only ever seen a handful of bikes locked that way.

Yah, just a wider U-lock seems good. They are some pretty wide ones out there, I've nevee had a problem with them. Pick up twp smaller ones maybe? Two small ones might be lighter than a giant chain.

Any time I've ever seen an orphaned wheel is usually the front, with the quick release dangling in the wind.

I usually double up by locking on the frame and the rear wheel. But when I'm in a hurry, or just going in for ~15 minutes, I'll just lock the frame down.

My number 1 bike theft prevention is my bike itself. It's a raleight capri wrapped in tubes and duct tape. with a rack zip tied to the back. and a blinkie held on with a coat hanger. I work in a very secure area, and lock it up through front wheel and main triangle with one of those curly little cable combination locks. The guy who rides the DeBernardi track bike locks up with a on-Guard mini-U Sheldon style.

Different people need different locking styles depending on what type of bike they ride and where they ride it. Mine comes in at night though.

I like the convenience of leaving the lock curled around my top tube and just stretching it down to lock through the front wheel. It's all I need because there are nicer bikes right next to mine which are locked with similar locks, and it's parked beside the federal courthouse.

Wider u-locks really leave you open to the Volvo Jack though, a popular method since it's small & portable.

Sheldon :) don't ruin my fun, I argue with dutret because he can't be wrong, not because he is wrong. Whether or not I'm wrong doesn't affect the entertainment value at all. It's wrong & probably twisted, but there is no better candidate eh?

I've seen & heard of bike theft in any fashion imaginable, like most people on this forum. By & large the thieves stay away from complexity, something breaking the wheel has, & they target locks or posts for destruction before the bikes themselves everytime, a methodology your lock tech ingeniously takes advantage of. With those things going for it it's a winner, arguing over the best method to beat it is just arguing on the internet, don't play to win unless you actually have a stake, play for fun instead.

Did I just admit to being a troll....I should edit this **** quick!

i think the best solution would be to get the city to install bike parking that accomodates standard u-locks. the op's problem is that there are only trees and giant lampposts to lock to. it sucks. In nyc, there are some blocks like that, where you must go a block or so away to lock up. other times (like the subway strike) all available poles are being used. here at least, you may call 311 and go through a lengthy pain in the ass process to get the city to install a bike rack. if brighton has any similar administrative apparatus, you should get a new bike rack.

oh and seriously, every method could probably be defeated in less time than you think. i used to think the american lock & big chain combo were the most secure, but now i know those padlocks aren't that tricky to defeat. u -locks are notorious for getting pried off with a piece of scaffolding or sidewalk trash. that said, i use a mini primarily and pretty much always lock just the frame and have never been ripped off.

Or, you know, you could try walking down the street til you find something you can lock to.

I think we're kind of up a tree here about whether you can cut a rim with bolt cutters even being relevant. Once you have cut a few more than half of the spokes, you can pretty much taco the rim into something that will go through the rear triangle once you undo the hub. Bare rims are pretty weak.

I carry the Krypto NY F-G heavy-*** dive weight chain, lock both wheels and the frame, and never think about it. I wish it wasn't so heavy, but I wish for a lot of things.

Anybody use any type of locking skewers or bolts or what have you for a seatpost collar, threadless stem, etc., wheels, etc? I found these, but haven't heard anything about them...

http://www.urbanbiketech.com/secure_shop.html

In LA you can rent a bike locker at the metro stations for $25 a year. Slide the entire bike into the locker and you're done. Of course, it only works at one place. But its still a pretty good idea.

In my city, the police don't investigate the theft of a bike. But, damaging a city-owned parking meter or a city-owned "No Parking" sign would be a felony. And, it would be a felony requiring loud power tools, as there are no manual tools that could damage the beefy steel poles used by the city of Houston.

You are worrying about what an imaginary crook might do if he had unlimited time, no fear of prison, and thousands of dollars worth of power tools. Houston is one of the most crime-ridden cities in the civilized world. In fact, the crime rate in Houston may disqualify Houston from being part of the "civilized world".

The bike messengers who work in inner city Houston are up against some of the most skilled crooks to be found anywhere. And, the downtown bike messengers talk with each other, especially about whose bike has been stolen and how. And, what the messengers agree on is this: no messenger in Houston has ever lost a bike when the owner was correctly using the "Sheldon Brown" method, combined with a beefy steel post set in concrete.

In real life, crooks go after the easy targets. Of every hundred bikes I see locked up in Houston, 95 could be stolen in under one minute using silent, cheap, portable tools. So, no "real world" crook is gonna invest in expensive power tools to go after the other 5 bikes. Why bother? Last summer, I saw two $3,000 Cannondale bikes locked behind a museum. They shared one $5 cable lock. Every city is full of these sorts of "free" bikes.

You think it would be easy to defeat the "Sheldon Brown" method by cutting the tire and rim. You are right. It would be easy on a workbench, in a bike shop. But, lock a bike to a parking meter on a public street. Then, go after that tire and rim. And, remember, a REAL crook is gonna be hacking away on the tire and rim while also looking over his shoulder for the bike's owner and the police. Texas law says the owner of property has the right to KILL a thief if the owner is trying to stop the theft of his property. Good reason for a crook to be looking over his shoulder.

My guess: cutting the rim while on your knees on a public sidewalk will take you ten or fifteen noisy, sweating minutes. And, you will have ruined the rear wheel of the bike. You will be walking away with your "loot", not riding away. And, as you walk slowly down the street, you will look exactly like a guy who just stole a bike.

Most crooks in Houston pawn the bike within thirty minutes of the theft to avoid being caught with stolen property. No pawn shop is gonna take a bike without a rear wheel. One more reason why no one in the Houston cycling community has ever seen a bike stolen where the crook cut the rear tire and rear wheel.

One of the reasons that many people lock their bikes with ONLY a $10 cable lock, is that some moron told them that "any crook can steal any bike, no matter how expensive a lock is on it". That advice confuses theory with reality. And, the reality is, the "Sheldon Brown" method combined with a "gold" rated lock around the rear wheel and a "silver" rated lock around the front wheel guarantees that crooks will just walk on by, looking for the bikes using only cable locks or u-locks from Master lock and other fake lock makers.

www.soldsecure.com/Leisure.htm

Not being investigated doesn't make it not a felony. Do you really think the police investigate every broken sign.


Streed signs are easily defeated by taking the sign off the top and pulling the bike lock and all over it.


If crooks don't have power tools why waste money on a $90 lock? Won't a 25 dollar one work just as well??

15 minutes of loud sweaty work to clip a rim with bolt cutters? On your knees? hacking away? You didn't even bother to read did you? Noone is talking about using a hacksaw.

You once saw two bikes locked up poorly last summer? Houston must be a veritable garden of eden for bike thieves.

You're pretty good at laying waste to your own arguments as well as your strawmen. How about actually adressing the issues raised.

The wheel could be cut in a matter of seconds.
This could be done with bolt cutters probably the single most common tool of bike theft.
If the thief really needed a rear wheel an unlocked one from a well secured bike could easily be had.
Thieves steal bikes without wheels all the time. Both rear and front(front is probably more common in a large part because more bikes are locked that way.)
If you are locking to something more easily defeated then a basic u lock why spend money on a super fancy one?

Not to pick on you, but that's a great way to shatter a hip in a crash.