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Yet another lock thread

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Yet another lock thread

Old 05-08-07, 06:43 AM
  #126  
bonechilling
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Originally Posted by LóFarkas
are probably sold in gun/police/army - loving America. Can you confirm that these are the real thing? It'd be nice to find out that Hungarian ones use a different key though.
Not to get all "Rah Rah America!" on you, but maybe it's because,
in America, we don't need the state to tell us how to live our lives.
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Old 05-08-07, 07:06 AM
  #127  
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Yeah... because people over there don't get fined $200 for not putting a foot down at a stopsign but trackstanding instead, don't get arrested for riding legally on the streets during CM, don't get one-sided media coverage of the Iraq war because it'd be "unpatriotic" to present the shortcomings, don't have to undergo drug tests at work and then get fired because they ate a poppyseed cake and the test is rubbish, 20 year old people are allowed to drink etc etc etc.

Quite possibly handcuffs are sold here as well, only Hungary has a bit fewer webshops than the US so I checked out ebay first.

Come on... the US is an alright country but freedom and non-interference is not one of its strengths.
Hungary (and most of Europe) is better than the US in all the things I just listed and a couple of others, and it's worse and more restrictive than the US in a million other things.

Can we just leave nationalism aside and discuss handcuffs for a moment?
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Old 05-08-07, 07:18 AM
  #128  
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I had to steal my own bike back over the winter, having lost the u-lock key, and it taught me a thing or two. I tried a hacksaw, and I don't care what anyone says, that **** is hard to cut. Sawed away for 15 mins, barely dented the surface. I tried the smallest bottle jack I own, but it wouldn't fit. In the end, I bought a cordless angle grinder for £50 (which was about what a locksmith wanted for the job anyway), and it took the lock off in about 60 seconds. If I was a serious bike thief, I would totally invest in a cordless angle grinder. It'd cut u-locks, cables, chains, rims, whatever, and holds enough charge to steal a whole vanload.
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Old 05-08-07, 12:36 PM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by Sammyboy
If I was a serious bike thief....
Well, if that is the case, the bike is gone no matter what lock you use. I think the idea is to keep the "not so serious" bike thieves from getting it.

Still wondering if anyone has info on combination vs. key type locks?
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Old 05-08-07, 12:42 PM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by LóFarkas
In theory only policemen should have that key, no?
In theory...except I have a universal handcuff key and I'm not a policeman. Regardless, they're pretty easy to pick if you know what you're doing, but this could be said for any kind of lock.
Here's and example:

https://www.metacafe.com/watch/429128...rick_revealed/

Originally Posted by LóFarkas
Now that you brought it up again, do you think there's a chance of a civilian getting a pair of handcuffs? For a start, would it be illegal in principle?
Perhaps I should try and get American or other foreign ones. Then at least not every Hungarian policeman could get at my wheel, and it would bystep any legal issues. Hmmm.
Edit: a quick visit to ebay confirms my hunch that these things are probably sold in gun/police/army - loving America. Can you confirm that these are the real thing?
It'd be nice to find out that Hungarian ones use a different key though.
I don't know of any place where it'd be illegal to have handcuffs. If that were the case, I'd imagine the S&M and bondage people would be in trouble. As long as you're not impersonating a police officer or anything, you should be okay.

Not sure about the status of Hungarian keys vs. American ones. I lived in europe for a while, but I never had the opportunity while I was there to be arrested and find out about what keys they use. If you really want to be secure, all the major hand cuff companies (Peerless, Smith & Wesson, ASP, et al.) make special handcuffs for corrections (prisons and such) that use special, unique keys, and some that use hinges instead of links, which make them much more secure. They look like they cost about $50 USD.

link 1
link 2

The ones you linked on Ebay look pretty legit. The quality of them (particularly the chain links) may not be too good, but the locking mechanism and key looks like the exact same that I carry at work and the ones that the cops here use .
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Old 05-13-07, 04:06 PM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by skellener
My bike was ripped off last week in Pasadena at lunch time - BROAD DAYLIGHT!! I'll be getting a new bike and new lock soon. This thread has been very helpful and that video of those guys snapping the chain locks was depressing. I'll skip the chain. I'm going to get a U-lock. I'd prefer a combination to a key though. I didn't see any discussions about combo vs. key here though.

I found this one from Kryptonite...

Kryptolok Combo U-Lock
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...UEXP6&v=glance

I don't think it's as small as the Kryptonite Fahgettaboutit U Lock or the OnGuard Bulldog MINI Bicycle U-Lock. It sounds like smaller is better if using the rear wheel through the triangle type set-up.

Has anyone had any experience with the Kryptonite Kryptolok Combo U-Lock?? Any pros or cons? I'm hoping to avoid another bike getting stolen.
You can find lock "test" results at soldsecure.com and in the May 2007 issue of "Cycling Plus Magazine".

The results of those tests is consistent with the "star" ratings you see at the Kryptonite Lock website and the OnGuard lock website: the locks with the highest number of "stars" (and the highest prices) are the ones that do best in testing.

This month's "Cycling Plus" test results indicated that the Kryptonite Fahgettaboudit Mini U-lock is the toughest lock CP editors have ever tested. Totally unbreakable with manual tools. Lasts longer against power tools than any other lock in the test.

The lower priced Kryptonite u-locks are intended for low security situations: a $200 bike locked for an hour during the afternoon in "Friendly Village". If you have a $800 bike, or live in "Unfriendly Village", the extra $25 or $35 for a "gold" rated lock is a good investment.

www.soldsecure.com/Leisure.htm
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Old 01-30-09, 11:57 PM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by ddac View Post
This is an old thread. Bump!
...
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Old 01-31-09, 02:05 PM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by ddac View Post
Locks don't expire =) Lots of good knowledge here.
You could have just bookmarked it or something...
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Old 01-31-09, 03:39 PM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by skellener View Post
Well, if that is the case, the bike is gone no matter what lock you use. I think the idea is to keep the "not so serious" bike thieves from getting it.

Still wondering if anyone has info on combination vs. key type locks?
(^Scroll down a little...)
I just figured I would cross post some comments I made in another thread FYI....



"First off, I am a locksmith. Have been for twelve years. I know exactly how all of these locks work.

NEVER use WD40 on any lock EVER for the purpose of lubrication. It is meant to be used as a water displacing cleaning agent. If your lock is seized, rusty, grimy, old, horribly gunked up........use WD40. spray, wait 5-15 minutes, whack with a mallet or deadblow hammer (or hammer if you don't mind scarring it up). Try your key. Repeat. Run the key in and out rapidly many times. Repeat these steps. If your lock still refuses to open, buy a new one.

Use any TEFLON based lubricant (tri-flow is what my industry uses, almost exclusively) on all locks for routine lubrication. These work better than anything out there, including 3-in-one oils, household oils, and machine oils. You should lubricate your locks at least 6 times a year. More often in bad weather, especially on bike locks which tend to get a lot of road particulates in them. Spray some tri flow into the keyway and on all other moving parts/surfaces. Run the key in and out, and turn back and forth several times to work the lubrication in. This will exponentially prolong the life of your locks.
Believe it.

I also use tri-flow to lube my chain frequently (almost daily). Just spray on, turn cranks or freewheel, wipe off. It is great stuff.

As to ON GUARD locks vs. KRYPTONITE.
I have seen more lock failures with the on guard brand than the kryptonite. In fact, I have never had a customer bring in a kryptonite lock that was broken in any way, only to have them removed from bikes, or keys made.
They function almost identically, and can be defeated in exactly the same ways. So neither is more secure than the other in my opinion. However, the kryptonite brand locks DO SEEM to be built quite a bit more robustly, with tighter tolerances and cleaner machining. I own two of them.

So, for lasting, quality operation, I go for the kryptonite over on guard. It is best, IMO, to invest a little more cash into your locking system.

The best locking system for your bike would be a kryptonite NYC chain with a heavy duty grade 1 MUL-T-LOCK padlock. Not very convenient, rediculously expensive, and perty dam heavy though.

You can't prevent someone from taking a cordless angle grinder to your locks. This is what we usually do to remove locks legitimately for customers. Your toughest lock or chain will be defeated in 3 minutes, tops. You can, however, persuade the opportunist (most common theft) by using a high quality locking system to deter them onto the next (easier) bike to steal.
"

Originally Posted by SlimAgainSoon View Post
Hey, Mr. Locksmith -- what about graphite?

I always thought that was the thing to use on locks.


"^
Powdered graphite (extremely fine) was considered the best lubricant for cylinder plugs (only) (the part that the key actually goes into) for many, many years. And it works really well......

...Until any kind of liquid, dirt, gunk, particulate gets in there. Bike locks get A LOT of foreign material into them. On interior door locks, where you won't see that happen, it works really well.
Once some foreign material gets into the cylinder, the graphite attaches to it and clumps up. It happens all the time when some 'genious' maintenance man has a lock issue and thinks that WD40 is a magic cure all. That makes everything even worse and more sticky when it dries. This negates its effectiveness entirely.

Don't use graphite on your bike lock.
"





Originally Posted by NEXUS View Post
I have only and will only use one kind of lock and that is the Kryptonite Kryptolok Combo U:



And the reason is I hate carrying around keys that can get lost. I even have an electric combo lock for my house front door. Life is so much easier this way. A few months ago my best friend who now lives out of state had a unexpected business meeting here in town and wanted to spend some time with us afterwords. We were actually out of town so I gave him the combination to get in the house and the combination to the U-lock if he wanted to go for a bike ride. Saved him hotel and car rental!

If you live in a bad area then this lock probably wouldn't be good enough for you since it's not that thick. You would probably want to go with the OnGuard 5012C Bulldog DT Combination U-Lock & Cable



" Convenience=a compromise in security.
Usually.
If one knows how, it takes a matter of seconds to turn the right combination and open that lock. And, unfortunately, to people passing by it just looks like you are fumbling with the combo on your lock.
Handy and easy if you live in a small town. Easily stolen if you are in a larger city.

P.S. I don't want to scare you, but if you spent less than $600 on your keypad entry lock on your house, you should replace it with a better one, or go back to a good ol' fashioned heavy duty deadbolt.

I deal with at least two people who have had their homes broken into each day (average).
Take this with a grain of salt. If you live in a nice, small town with a low crime rate, obviously don't worry.............
....but if you don't.
How much is your peace of mind/safety/big screen/bike worth to you?"




Originally Posted by NEXUS View Post
The house lock wasn't that expensive but it is a deadbolt lock. If some guy really wanted to get it her would just go through a window.

So how does a person figure out the combo to a lock in seconds?

And yeah, I live in a really safe town with almost 0 crime.


" I am glad that you live in low crime area. I do miss those days.... Hey, whatever works for you. I just hate to see people that think their homes are secure after buying locks from home depot and the like.

Without becoming too technical and/or giving info on a technique, 'there are gates', that you can actually see as you spin the dials. You have to know how to 'transfer' them to the actual combo.
So, for a hypothetical example, I see a gate at #4 as I spin the first dial. Knowing that with this particular lock they offset the 'gates' 2 numbers, I dial back 2 numbers.
Next chamber.......etc.....
There is some knowledge, skill, and good eyes involved, but with practice anyone can learn.

There are actually races at ALOA (associated locksmiths of america) conventions involving these, and many other opening techniques.
They give you prizes!
I know it's annoying to carry keys, but to all out there who live in an area where your bike even MIGHT be stolen, please use a good solid, keyed lock. "

Edit: I will add that most of the newer U locks are using "disc tumbler" cylinder systems. While these are very good, time tested cylinders, they do have their problems.
Sometimes, because there is no spring tension on the disks, they get out of alignment. You have surely tried to put your key in and had it not go all the way in, causing you to have to fumble with it to get it to turn.
When this happens, while you insert the key, jiggle and turn left repeatedly as you push it in until it gets to the bottom.
Annoying.
Disk tumblers can be defeated, if you know how. But they ARE much better than standard pin tumbler padlocks, or tubular key cylinders.

Tubular cylinders are OUT because they can be opened with a bic pen. While this is true, it got all way blown out of proportion. It is still a difficult thing to do. Go ahead. Try it.
Still, don't buy a tubular (looks like a round hole on the keyed part) keyed bike lock.

MUL-T-LOCK or MEDECO cylinders are the best (american) lock cylinders being produced today. You can get them in EXTREMELY heavy duty padlocks, better than any on the 'bike' market I have seen. These cylinders are virtually pick, drill, and bump proof. You HAVE to purchase them from a locksmith. You can get multiples keyed alike. The key bittings are recorded and held on file along with a signatory sheet by said locksmith. It is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to get YOUR key bitting, or keys made, unless they are on your list. Very secure. Buy one of these over all others if you can afford it and you are using a heavy duty, hardened, re-inforced chain. Unfortunately, I have not seen these cylinders available in a U-lock.

All that said, most theives don't pick locks. They break them. You can't do much against an angle grinder. With the right cutting wheel, they can cut through any material that I can think of. Including a highly tensioned rim. I have done this as a test. It took about 8 seconds.
So, weigh convenience, cost, and weight. Buy the best lock that you can. Use it every time. And forget about it. Ride your bike, repeat, enjoy.


~crawdaddio


Last edited by crawdaddio; 01-31-09 at 07:52 PM.
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Old 02-01-09, 12:22 PM
  #135  
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I personally think the sheldon method is silly but meh. It's going to be quicker to get through the wheel than the lock, and who cares if you can't ride it away, sling it over your shoulder and your off.

Atm I have a rubbish lock because I used to have a rubbish bike and haven't bothered with a new one yet (mainly because I havem't wanted to leave it locked up anywhere), but when I do get a new one it will prob be an abus steel-O-chain.
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Old 02-01-09, 02:00 PM
  #136  
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Originally Posted by ddac View Post
But bookmarking something wouldn't yield new helpful responses. If this interwebz forum thing is new to you, PM me. I'll explain how it works.

I guess I could've started a new thread asking about Mini U locks. Then everyone & their mothers will say "use the SEARCH". So, I did everyone a favor by using the search. Then I get some responses of "this thread is so old, why dig it up?". So.....I guess you can't win.

Since I found this 2 year old thread to be really helpful to me, I thought it may be helpful to others who don't know how to use the search function.....hence, the reason I brought it back from the dead.
At the time you resurrected this no one needed to use the search function because there was already another lock thread on page 1. It has since fell back to page 2.

It would have made more since to just link to this thread in the other lock thread if you felt so inclined.

Also, 'If this interwebz forum thing is new to you' here is some advice: lurk more.
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Old 02-01-09, 02:17 PM
  #137  
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Kryptonite Locks ...

I use the Kryptonite 5' chain lock. Very heavy, but I feel more secure using this massive lock! I use a Kryptonite 6' cable with heavy lock for my mountain bike. Bicycle theft is very common in our area, and I can't afford to lose my only transportation!
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