Originally Posted by 1fluffhead

actually they do depending on the synthetic material used. Plastic for example, can be made from natural gas, crude oil or natural cellulose all of which will have to either directly or indirectly effect an ecosystem during the procurement process.
https://www.export911.com/ref/oriPlast.htm

Unless your saddle is made from the skin of a pesticide free fruit that has fallen to the ground after it reach maturity, it will impact some ecosystem on some level. Even in this example, you are effecting the ecosystem by removing potential food source for some animal.

Everything has an impact on an ecosystem.

BTW I can’t believe that this thread is still here and now I am adding more to it.

Originally Posted by xthugmurderx

vegan no. cannibalism is weird like that. since it is still an animal product it's not vegan, BUT...most vegans are not to fond of people. also, if you kill and eat a person, it's a little different.

humans aren't defenseless, or raised on farms ONLY to be slaughtered. if you were to kill and eat a human, he or she still had a far better life than any farmed animal. and if the human died of natural causes, then it's like freeganism. however you feel about that. not my decision. personally, if it came down to it, i'd sooner eat a person than an animal. but that's just me and i think human civilization is going t be the downfall of this planet (but i don't advocate killing people, and i'm staunchy pro-life-uh huh...now there's a topic for internet discussion!)

Originally Posted by dutret

While I disagree with this it is neither completely absurd nor factually incorrect unlike veganwar's claims. I will however continue to eat meat because I like it and I don't find it morally objectionable. If I could afford high quality local free range meats I would.

Originally Posted by tehz

you're also straightedge, so what do you know

Originally Posted by tehz

i posted later that i was being sarcastic and said something like "everything ****s everything else"

Originally Posted by schnee

See, I'm arguing a point that's a bit off compared to all this.

Living takes energy. Foraging and gathering has a very high 'energy spent -> food gained' ratio. As you move up the industrialization ladder, from domesticated animals to machine-driven factory farming, all we've done is leverage cheap sources of energy to do more work for us. Every society does this, since we're all competing for limited resources.

Being a 'gathering vegan' is great if you want to be a 100lb. Samana fleeting through a forest with nothing but rags. However, the 'hunting omnivores' will have more time and energy to stockpile a surplus, and will take what they want from you. The men will be stronger, the women will have better-fed babies, and eventually, as what happened time and time again, they'll push the gatherers out and run things.

The temptation to 'win' is far too ingrained in the human psyche to prevent that sort of competition from happening. The average girls look at the hottie with the long eyelashes and blonde hair getting all the guys, and start bleaching their hair and using makeup. The average guys look at the muscular stud getting all the girls, and start working out and wearing big cod pieces. It's stupid and vain, but that's what we are.

If the world were full of vegans, and yet some people could better their place in life by killing and eating animals, they'd do it, upset the balance, create a resource 'arms race' and destroy the Garden of Eden. That's what happened, and here we are.

Nowadays we have the machinery in order to make veganism competitive with meat eating, but that's only a result of our dependence on oil. If we didn't have that cheap source of energy, then gathering food would be incredibly time-consuming, and chucking a spear at a passing buffalo would be a cheap investment for a big bang of energy.

So, I'm not saying anything's right or wrong. I'm just saying... well... forget this, I'm gonna go ride my bike with a synthetic seat.

Originally Posted by LóFarkas

That and I wanna know what dirty typed in "yeah, i can't believe they censor *********** and not *******". I can't think of any swearword that long.


Too lazy to check the rest of the thread. Maybe later.

Originally Posted by xthugmurderx

edit: the point i was trying to make is that your eating meat is terrible for the environment and the people trying to live in it. you're probably anti-car/pro-bike, at least to an extent, but eating meat is for more destructive than driving.

Originally Posted by LóFarkas

Actually that's the stronest argument for veganism (?) ever. Once I saw a semi-reliable figure for how much land is necessary to raise cattle... They did the math and got a figure for what area produces meat with 100Kcal of nutrition in it per year. Calculated the same figure for vegetables... Meat needs 10x or more times the resources, I don't remember. Land, water, oil, everything. Which is why I have a respect for non-meat-eaters whatever the correct name is. That and animals are treated really bad on industrial farms... But then the kind of BS some of them poison the world with... worse then CO2 pollution or water poisoning for sure.

Originally Posted by xthugmurderx

*slap hand!*