I want one I will paint it with glow in the dark paint and finally have a tron light cycle yes shut up stop complaining and ride

I'm not saying that I know better than they do, but I know enough about engineering to know that not everybody who can afford to do it, does it. I'm just wondering if the R&D was actually done, or if they are just using the designs from their road bikes. More specifically, I'm wondering, if they are doing the research and engineering, what benefits are gained by the more slack HT (Though, 73.5 isn't all that slack, i've seen as low as 72, and vintage is usually 74-75), and what is it about CF that makes it possible when it appears to be impossible with steel. Vomitron mentions it is easier to paceline, which seems to make sense, though I'm not sure exactly why that would be.

I think a lot of the bikes are designed for olympic and world class level tracks and the anticipated speeds that riders will be traveling on them (ie. faster than you or me). "****ing steep" geometry may not serve any good purpose if it's going to result in stearing that isn't neutral for the conditions the bike is designed to be ridden in.

Just to spell this out a bit more, the Forest City Velodrome vs. some track that's been used for the olympics will have vastly different geometry and anticipated rider speeds. These bikes are all designed for the (standardized design) upper level velodromes where all the big competitions are held.

I don't personally read Walker's criticism of certain mass produced frames as a rant over asthetics. It would seem that Sachs, Walker, and other "purists" (for lack of a better term) view track machines as a bicycle that requires a geometry specific to the steep angles of a velodrome.

Now if a bike looks like a melted candle, and is also unsuitable for the track (BB too low) the fact that it's painted and covered with a million Nascaresque stickers to hide apparent design flaws is a moot point.

But I clearly remember when the message boards complained about the colour choices of Richard Sach's frames or the font selection of a Walkercycles downtube. And probably realizing that even after months of ranting, the were only viable complaints of the handbuilders was that they "didn't like the paint".


That's a cool bike btw. Especially if it works.*

*It reminds me of the Look Athena, a bike that I would pawn my antique Charles X furniture to afford it's $14,000.00 ticket, even if for a day.

Don't you dare!
Just file the stem.

The Look Ergostem is made for this type of frame.

The logic (apparently) is that more riders are coming from the road world, and training on road bikes, thus they are used to less twitchy steering geometry. Now, for the average world-class sprinter, at around turn 4, you're likely to think your headset is welded shut if you don't have a 75deg ht.

Seems like the bike is designed for kilo/tt/mass start. The slack(er) ht is probably just so road-trained cyclists will feel more comfortable in the pack.

can we have steel aluminum and carbon fiber fight in a three way steel cage match, or would a steel cage give an unfair advantage to the steel frame?..

If you imagine the Look to be on a more level angle, these frames look a lot alike. Similar geometry, at least, and the headtube seems to be about the same angle, so the drop-stem issue that someone mentioned doesn't seem to apply.

http://www.teschnergroup.com/product...kpro_large.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...hEz/d695_3.jpg

yep they're both carbon fiber...

The Look's headtube/fork treatment gives it the win.

Yeah, I would imagine that the Look frame probably inspired the Teschner company's branding of their frame. Either one would be great for me to boot around on the streets with. In another 15 years, we will see messengers on these things. How cool will that be?

Build the look with the seatpost system of the te**** and I'm sold. Except that I don't ride track and I'm broke.

If the market keeps growing, it might be more like another 15 months.

It would be the last bastion of exclusivity.

The road forum had that group buy-in on a full CF frame/fork for 550$USD, that is pretty cheap. I don't think we could organize such a thing here but damn, you are right, it won't be long until we see some cheap-as-hell CF track frames from China on eBay.

I think it looks great! Of course, the head tube might need a little work as has been mentioned, but these futuristic-looking bikes seem really cool to me.

yes, well, just ask Christian Stahl and a few other world class sprinters what happens to that headtube/fork treatment when involved in a crash...

...you have the frame, handlebars and fork with wheel still attached go in three different directions.

If we could pull it off, though, I swear I'd buy two...

Who wants to write a nice letter to the folks at Corima?

it seems that the riders that can benefit most from aero carbon frames for the most part don't have to pay for them. they may not even like them, but they probably don't have much of a choice in the matter. while thousands of dollars of carefully laid carbon may generate some sort of advantage to a world class athelete, the potential benefit is probably lost on lower category racers with the disposable income to purchase a world class setup.

personally, i would hate to be the guy with a $4000 frameset and $4000 wheels getting his ass handed to him by racers on less exotic rigs.

kind of off topic, but a curiosity of mine...

so I'm completely ignorant on titanium, it seems as though it's quite light, and quite strong, so why not use it instead of carbon fiber? is it because you can mold carbon fiber into aerodynamic shapes? it's always seemed to me that carbon fiber is to easy to break, but as I said, I'm ignorant in this area of things...

Yeah, I think the idea is that aerodynamics is far more important in track racing than weight is.

I'm the OP. The subject is a joke and a reference to DW. I've necer heard of teschener before, and I just thought that was a really cool f'n bike. Just like the cervelo (uhhh!) and look and that wicked hot calfee that just went on ebay.

With the stem, I guess you could get a negative rise by using spacers and a flipped angled stem. Personally, I like the aesthetics of a deep drop, but there must be a reason that most modern track bikes used on the track aren't so. Out on a limb. I think it's because you can expand your lungs more if you aren't super hunched down. That, and I think front end stiffness is improved with a shorter headtube.

Oh, and I have 4 bikes and not a single scrap of CF on any.

titanium also makes for quite the noodle bike. at least the ones I've ridden...

that teschner is dope. the deep drop stem is a thing of the past. look at many of the top track racers, many of them have neutral or *gasp* riser stems. people on this forum are nothing if not slaves to aesthetic...

That bike is the ish. An affordable copy of the Look basically.

As for the titanium as people have said priority on the track is stiffness and aerodynamics. Weight is of little importance except specific occasions. CF owns in stiffness. Also, it's easily moldable into aero shapes.

As far as geometry discussions go, check FixedGearFever, there are some world class riders over there that actually know what's up. DW is also the man.

you're all missing the point. the real question here is, with a 650c front, could this baby do bar spins? if so, i will buy it.

For the win!

Nothing but steel is stiff enough for me I've fount that not only ti but carbon and aluminum to just make noodely unrideable bikes. http://gallery.roadbikereview.com/da...14IMG_2379.JPG http://www.giroposte.com/PageMill_Im...92purpleAl.JPG

ahh, cool. I've never had the money to even touch something titanium, so thanks for the heads up. I used to race bmx when I was younger, and there was this company called titan (I believe) who had a half front and half rear fork. Their frames were titanium, so I just assumed it was strong.

Titanium is strong, it's just not as stiff as other materials in certain configurations.

There is a big difference between the two qualities. Glass is really stiff, but it's not strong. Rope is very strong, but is not very stiff. That's one (heavily simplified, riddled with misrepresentations) way to look at it.

Dutret's is another. Basically all the frame materials can make stiff or floppy bikes, depending on what you do with the material.