myfish

ok, really hooked on this fixed thing now...
thinking about a new long term build, but one that goes out in good weather on great wheels, shiny quality hubs, track type bars and stem, possibly a custom mercian frame as seen here..... https://www.merciancycles.com/frame_vigorelli.asp

the fact is, i will need a front brake, i will use the bike in 5 through 25 mile TT's over medium undulating to flatish terrian, so just a front brake will be fine.

However:

In the quest to keep it looking "Track"

I wondered if we could loose the brake levers, and go with a caliper that sits "behind" the fork.
I've seen a picture of a rear fork mounted caliper before, but i don't remember where. it was on a TT bike anyway and really small and lightweight.

So, back to the twist grip thing...
I notice that alot of track bikes use grips as opposed to bar tape, and i would be using the dropped position pretty much for aerodynamics on any TT.

Has anyone ever tried a motorcycle type twist grip operated front brake ?
Would something like that work ?
Just thowing out the idea really to see if it can be done, or if it has been done.

deathhare

It might 'work' but it wouldnt really work. You could operate a brake but youd not be able to put enough leverage on it to get any real stopping power.

goldener

your plan is totally flawed. first of all- you can't get the caliper "behind" the fork crown, that would fuxor up the dt/ht junction and make for a really weird looking/geometry frame.

second of all the twist grips thing would be terrible for actual braking- there's a reason why brake levers are the way they are. it would be very hard to modulate braking power and you would either put too little force, and hit the guy in front of you, or too much force and endo.


stick with the conventional setup.

deathhare

br995

I just think a twist grip would wreak havoc if you actually push or pull on the drops. Obviously your hand doesn't spin now, but if the bar was designed to twist? I can imagine a lot of sprints ending in accidental braking.

queerpunk

seems to me that it would be difficult to modulate a twistgrip brake lever, since you're putting your weight on it and trying to be gentle and firm and precise at the same time. with conventional brake levers, the thing you're leaning on (handlebars, or hoods) is different from the thing you're activating (levers), and that make a big, big difference.

myfish

Well the idea is to basically hide as much non track componentry as possible.
I like the idea of symmetry.

I found some idea's in the concept bikes of canyon and felt, where the rear brakes are tucked in behind the bottom bracket, and then i saw these brakes mounted behind the fork and got to thinking we could pretty much hide all the road gear.
I did think about a cyclocross brake on the right side, like on the surly steamroller. That might look ok.
Obviously, to hide the rear brake on a bike like i mentioned, i think the frames have to be designed to handle that.

Those brakes by the way are tektro R725

Those Canyon brakes are well hidden on the front end


And those rear brakes on this bike is awesome.



maybe, with some forethought, i could hide these part on a fixed ?
Idea's will be well recieved.

dutret

What type of tts are these?
Just you and a clock or organized?
Are you using aero bars?
If no, why the hell not?
Are you just using grips instead of tape to follow fads?
What type of bike are you used to riding?

Really though doing all this stuff is stupid merely to make a bike that fits within the current cliched fads.

The only time I would consider using a twist grip would be with an arai and that would be purely for long descents not emergency stops.

deathhare

Hey wheres your pic of the stormtrooper track bike. Got a wacky ass rear brake.

12XU

You do realize that Mercian is the last company you should try this with, right? They still hearth braze their frames for god's sake, so not exactly a strong indicator of innovation. One gets a Mercian because they want a design that's been lost amongst the hype of all of the bikes you've already posted.

br995

I have no idea what you're talking about. Go to bed.


(honestly, I have no idea what you're talking about)

br995

I don't think trying something new with a bike is buying into a fad.

He wants to make it look sleeker, and yes, you could argue that that's part of the new trend, but I could point to any bike from San Francisco to 'prove' otherwise.

Hidden brakes and/or twist brake levers, as far as I know, are not stock on Pistas or Fuji Tracks.

dutret

no, he keeps talking about how he wants it to "look track" and has noticed that a lot of track bikes use grips instead of tape etc. It seems as though he wants his bike to maintain every cliche from fgg while still having a front brake. That is faddish even if he wants to achieve this through a serious of relatively unique though misguided methods.

deathhare

From the j-bike show you monkey! The white bike.
Maybe you dont have it anymore and its not that relevant..i just wanted to see it.

mide

just ride a track bike then...?

br995

Oh, ****, that one. I looked through all my bike pictures on photobucket and didn't see anything that seemed like it could be what you mean. Turns out I forgot to look through that subfolder....






Though the brake looks relatively standard, just mounted at a different angle.

Sammyboy

What we could do, instead of *****ing and mithering about this, is either help if we can, or go do something else if we can't. That said, I'll let you get back to the *****ing and mithering.

deathhare

Yeah that one. Totally irrelevant to the thread but i wanted to see it again.
BAA BAA BAA BUM BAA BAA

mattface 

In the last 100+ years of bicycle technology practically every hare brained scheme you can think of has been tried. If you think you've got a new idea for a bike design, and you're NOT an experienced bike designer, you're probably wrong. We need a sub-forum called re-inventing the wheel.

With this idea, like most re-inventing the wheel ideas. It will work, but not as well as conventional designs, and it will be a bigger hassle to get it working at all. If your only reason for using a non-conventional braking system is for looks, just get a coaster brake for the back wheel and be done with it. No cables. It won't work all that well, but it will better than an ineffective (because of the twist grip) front brake that is frequently getting fouled on the downtube.

TimArchy

Bikes that have the front brake behind the fork are specially designed to have the proper clearance so that the brake does not interfere with steering. Most of the brakes used in that fashion are similar to the U-brake design found on old mtb's and bmx bikes. Beware b/c they are not as powerful as front mounted caliper brakes. But for the TT, you generally only need to brake relatively hard once, at the turnaround, if there is one, so strong braking is not a priority on these bikes.

It seems that a twisting brake lever would work for these purposes if it is correctly designed. I've seen a brake lever made out of an old thumb shifter before. The problems would come from the design of the lever. You'd have to have one that fit into your hand so that you can apply enough force without your hand slipping.

I have seen a brake that is actuated by a sheathed cable stretched between two points on a bullhorn bar like a clothesline. You simply pull it toward the bar to actuate the brake. Not very powerful I think, but good enough for TT use. Can't find a link unfortunately.

kyle

dutret

Was it meant as an actual stopping brake or a set it and forget drag brake for descents?

myfish

yea, people are saying I'm misguided, but thats NOT true.
I want to run a classic looking fixed, with proven going forward geometry and a stiff frame over a series of TT's. I don't have too, i just want too. I want to prove to myself, that i don't need a carbon fibre bike costing perhaps £3000, but instead, i want to preserve the "look" of the track bike.
Ok, the "look" of the track bake has evolved for a reason, not through a fad, but through a demand for function.
Yes, i won't be on a smooth velodrome surface, but our 5 mile course IS smooth.
It is also marshalled, so...
No unexpected braking will be required, so as mentioned, i was aiming to go with aero, whilst staying classic and whilst abiding by the law. I:e having a front brake.
I didn't suggest this to start a fight, just wanted some suggestions, or idea's.
And, i mentioned grips on bars, not because i want grips on bars, it was because, i could hide a twistgrip brake and still be "seen" to have the "look".
I actually prefer bartape.
I might even go with the "pursuit" look and a carbon frame, carbon disc, etc....
however, it just doesn't appeal so much.

I can take out my latest and greatest carbon today, and in a few weeks its old and won't turn a head.
But, i can take out a 30 year old steel fixed, and they don't date, so they always look new, and they always turn heads.
And, before we go there, i don't want to turn heads, i just want, a clean, functional, aero fixed bike, thats classic in looks and form, but still goes like a bat outta hell. When i pedal fast enough of course.

genericbikedude

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-mechanics/161435-check-out.html
https://www.fixedgeargallery.com/2005...ro.htm#image_4

myfish

excellent, so it can be done.
Thanks for that.

dutret

Where did the bartape thing come from then? The vast majority of real track bikes use bar tape. You should too.

I think making a TT bike from a spindly steel frame isn't that unreasonable provided you don't spend more on it then you would on a moderate AL one. But make your decisions intelligently based at least slightly on performance rather then fgg style. Further it seems silly as wasteful to make a bike like this and only plan on riding it for tts. The benefit of such a set up goes beyond "look at me I'm different" if you want it to.

My advice:
1. Use aerobars. Also a forward offset seatpost. "classic track styling" cool and all but aerobars make a huge difference both in comfort and speed.
2. Even if you disregard that advice Don't use a twist grip. Suck it up and put a regular brake lever on. It limits the usefulness of the bike to purely the tts you're talking about and it will suck for them too. You don't want your hand of a twist grip while struggling along above LT.
3. If you must ignore the advice of this entire thread check with the organizers to see if they will let you race with a twist grip brake. Of course then I have to wonder why you would bother making this thread in the first place.