Formula hub + Phil lockring = :(
 

Yesterday I bought a complete rear wheel with a double-fixed Formula hub from my local lbs. As I pay for it, I hand over a cog and lockring and ask them if they can install them for me. I asked the shop to do it because of an unfortunate prior experience I had just recently (why do you think I had a Phil Wood lockring?). To get to the point, my double-fixed Formula hub is now a flip-flop. Of course, I didn't learn until after this happened that Phil lockrings are only compatible with Phil hubs. Now, it's one thing for me to have improperly installed an incompatible lockring on the hub, but a shop? I'm planning on going back tomorrow to speak with them about it. Any advice on how I should deal with the situation?

You gave them the wrong part. i think you should eat the $$$ and be glad there's another side to your wheel.

+1


Pretty ridiculous though that it's a nonstandard lockring...guess that's why they come with the hubs.

Part of me thinks it's their fault for putting that part on there, but the other part of me knows that not every single person working in every single shop knows everything about compatability between different hubs and lockrings. Especially if you were bringing in parts for them to assemble for you, they probably would have assumed that you knew that the parts would work.

How did it strip? It sounds like the problem didn't happen until after you left the shop; which means when they put it on it should have gone on fine, right?

Plus, if you're handing me a used lockring, i'm going to assume its a little rough. Thing probably threaded on pretty well, i'd think.
Not everyone knows everything about stuff like threads per inch for all parts. i think it's just an oops learning moment.

It's not a non-standard lockring - Phil hubs/lockings use the same standard as Campy, Gipiemme, and Miche. There just happen to be three different lockring "standards." As the grumpiest wrench at my favorite shop always says, "the two words we never use around here are 'standard' and 'universal.'"

Yeah, I think you may want to let them know for their own education, which could be difficult to not make sound rude; but I'm not so sure you deserve reimbursement.

So wait - you asked the shop to install a part that you
bought elsewhere, and they did, presumably for free,
and now you're upset about it why?

How is this not entirely your fault? You actually expect
the shop to remember minutia like which lockrings work
with which hubs?

you dont?

Certainly not ones that they don't sell! Judging from
the OP, this is something he purchased elsewhere.

im not saying the op didnt make a mistake, but when i go to a shop i feel im paying for their knowledge as much as the physical labor. knowing things that prevent my equipment from being damaged or unsafe is exactly the kind of thing that should be common knowledge of any bike mechanic, dont you think? if its not parts they sell tho i wouldnt hold em accountable, just be kinda pissed.

+1
you should know what parts you have and wheather they are compatible first off sorry about your misfortune but you did kinda bring it on yourself

formula and most other hubs = bsa ring
phil and campy = italian
mavic = french

you make a good point adam but alot of shops even in nor-cal have very little experience with track components

i guess im spoiled in sf. theres some great mechanics in this town.

Yeah just go in and (whether you believe it or not) say these things:

1. I'm sorry, I didn't really know what I handed you. (You say this because while it admits fault, it is polite and nice)

2. I think the threading must be different because this happened(explain).

3. I guess I need a matching formula lockring, is that right?


you say this because 1. while you could say 'you screwed up and i handed you a part that you should have known wouldn't have worked' that is not going to make them want to help you. if they think the fault is theirs, they'll fix it unless they dislike you. if they think the fault isn't theirs, they won't fix it unless they like you. basically, whether or not they fix it for free is almost entirely dependant on whether or not they like you. it's better that they like you.

2. they need to know what happened and you should REFRAIN from assigning fault. say "the lockring didn't fit the hub and fell off when I mashed the pedals." DO NOT say "the lockring didn't fit and fell off because you didn't install it right or notice it wasn't a proper thread combination."

3. if you give them reason to believe you'll be a return customer, they'll want to treat you well. if you come in angry or belittle or insult their service or expertise, they have no reason to think you'll come back and therefore no reason to help you out.





fortunately for me, i haven't been in your situation- all the work i've had done(very little, i didn't built my conversion i found it at a LBS) has come off without a hitch and i've been happy with it. i have great LBS(plural) in my area and everyone who i've dealt with are very smart, helpful, and personable salespeople. I treat them all with respect and they always go out of their way to give me good service and good attitude. I even like to think of some of them as friends.

the bottom line is, if you go in and don't address guilt or fault and are respectful, nice, and friendly, you have a far greater chance of them helping you out. if they're a good shop, they'll help you out even if you plainly say "hey it broke but it wasn't your fault, i gave you a wrong component" and they'll fix it for free because they want customers who are easy to deal with. however, if you ask them to fix it, not if they can fix it... they may charge you for the work and go ahead and do it.

did it strip your hub, or just the lockring? or is nothing stripped and it just fell out?

if ****'s stripped, i doubt they'll replace your 80 dollar hub even if you are nice and they think it is their fault. if it's just the work that needs to be redone i'd be extremely surprised if they don't fix it for you on the house. unless you're mean about it or accuse them of not knowing enough or doing bad work, in which case i'd be surprised if they don't turn you down the street to the next shop with no refund.

yeah well I got rich maile and I will stick with him but the mv crew and american are both great shops and great guys

maybe OP got stuck in one of these: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=278927

mm not all the american guys are so hot. they royally messed up a friends wheel, and the loaner wheel they lent him was deffinately NOT solid. ive heard a lot of complaints about attitude from them, too. im a fan of mv, box dog, freewheel hayes, refried. a few others but thats where i go most.

a loner wheel that wasn't a totally stiff, perfectly true piece of artwork? for shame! It's a loner wheel because no one cares about it.

i think they had forgotten to tension a few of the spokes. they were like wet noodles and the nipples could be unthreaded by hand.

alright, that's a legitemately janky wheel. it was probably some machine built thing bought for 20 dollars wholesale.

i feel like you suck it up, most people never flip their flip flop hubs anyway and plenty more ride single sided hubs so just move on with life and learn from your mistake

This made my day :)

Yeah I had an incident with stripping a phil hub too..that's why I run disc mount now

http://www.luds.net/galeries/nelson.gif

ha ha