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Originally Posted by Six jours
With all due respect, I think we must have different standards for "silent" -- or perhaps you've never exerienced the Izumi V with a tuned cog. I personally have never seen a quiet running KMC chain, and in my past life as a track coach I have been around perhaps more than a thousand track bikes. Of course, just because I haven't seen something doesn't mean it's never happened, but IMO the odds are getting a bit steep.
If it works for you, of course... 1. Loosen chain tension 2. Clean/lube chain |
I run a kmc and im just a step above silent. I mean, im sure if I had an izumi V with a super star cog it would be stealthy, but this works fine. Here are two easy steps to get a "silent chain": 1. Loosen chain tension 2. Clean/lube chain Izumi V, boys and girls... </ soapbox > |
why fix it if it aint broke?
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Originally Posted by Ken Cox
EAI cogs appear to have the highest quality of machining, compared to some of the others.
Appearance doesn't necessarily mean anything. That said, an article by Sheldon Brown or Phil Wood (can't remember) has me thinking a person should stick with one brand of cog, since the various cog manufacturers have tiny respective variations in their threading, and these variations, when one goes from one manufacturer to the other, will cause premature wear on the threads of the hub. According to this thinking, if one goes back and forth between a DA cog and an EAI cog, each time he does so the new cog will rethread the hub to match the new cog's slightly different threading, and this will remove metal from the hub threads each time one installs the new cog. Hm. If so, then I say pick a manufacturer and stick with that manufacturer. I like EAI for the appearance of EAI's machining, and for the broad range of teeth in both 3/32's and 1/8, and my current hub has never "seen" anything except an EAI cog. As for chains, I started out with a KMC 610 and have since switched, following my lbs's recommendation, to a KMC 810. I find the 810 quieter. I have a separate chain for each chainring and cog combination. |
Originally Posted by Ken Cox
EAI cogs appear to have the highest quality of machining, compared to some of the others.
Originally Posted by Ken Cox
Appearance doesn't necessarily mean anything.
That said, an article by Sheldon Brown or Phil Wood (can't remember) has me thinking a person should stick with one brand of cog, since the various cog manufacturers have tiny respective variations in their threading, and these variations, when one goes from one manufacturer to the other, will cause premature wear on the threads of the hub. You may be thinking of some B.S. that Surly put out to try to explain away the deficiencies of their first-generation fixed sprockets. Sheldon "Interchangeabilitude" Brown Code:
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Originally Posted by Sheldon Brown
Nonsense. That's an imaginary issue.
You may be thinking of some B.S. that Surly put out to try to explain away the deficiencies of their first-generation fixed sprockets. |
Sounds like that's Sheldon's story and he's sticking to it. I think I'm still gonna stay with EAI cogs though anyway, but Six Jours almost makes me want to go out and pick up that fancy Superstar, or better yet, the new Gold Metal one (a cool $99). But alas, I don't even race track and when I do go to the velodrome, it's for fun and laps.
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I'll actually disagree with Sheldon, at least mildly, on this one. I know for a fact that EAI cogs have slightly different threading than Suntour and Shimano, and that Campy is slightly different from all three. My personal experience has been that an EAI cog will slightly distort the threads on Campy, Shimano, and Suntour hubs and that from then on it will take a bit more effort to install any cog onto that hub.
Does this mean that repeatedly swapping from one cog brand to another will eventually strip the threads on a hub? I've never personally seen it happen, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that it has. All of this, BTW, is on track bikes which see several cog changes per night. On a "street" fixie where a cog usually stays put for months or years at a time, it's probably not worth worrying about. |
Andre, you can also "tune" a cog yourself. Use a round jeweler's file and "break" all the sharp edges around the teeth. The same file -- or a dowel with jeweler's rouge, valve grinding compound, or emery paper -- can then be used to polish between the teeth where the chain runs. Finally, you can use a flat file, or -- carefully -- a Dremel-type tool to smooth the machining marks on the teeth themselves. This is essentially what EAI does with the Superstar cogs.
I have no experience with the Gold Medal cogs, but don't think the idea has much merit. I believe the shape and smoothness has much more to do with the feel of the cog than does any coating -- and I'll bet the coating doesn't last more than a dozen hours of use. |
Originally Posted by Six jours
Andre, you can also "tune" a cog yourself. Use a round jeweler's file and "break" all the sharp edges around the teeth. The same file -- or a dowel with jeweler's rouge, valve grinding compound, or emery paper -- can then be used to polish between the teeth where the chain runs. Finally, you can use a flat file, or -- carefully -- a Dremel-type tool to smooth the machining marks on the teeth themselves. This is essentially what EAI does with the Superstar cogs.
I have no experience with the Gold Medal cogs, but don't think the idea has much merit. I believe the shape and smoothness has much more to do with the feel of the cog than does any coating -- and I'll bet the coating doesn't last more than a dozen hours of use. |
Originally Posted by fatbat
Buy 5 kmc z510H chains at $6 each. Swap one out every other month or so. If you wait to change a chain, it'll wear out your chainring and cog much more quickly, and those things are more expensive.
chains |
Don't waste your time. Just ride the cog for a couple hundred miles and the thing will polish/machine itself. |
Originally Posted by sac02
Nashbar sells tandem length KMC zchains for like $7 on sale, each tandem chain will make 2 and 1/3 fg chains. Buy 3 (turns into 7 chains) for $21 - $3 for a good chain. Almost cheap enough to throw away instead of cleaning it.
Mac luckily, i picked up 5 last time they were that cheap. :D and usually by the time they REALLY need a cleaning (for me anyway) the chain gueage shows enough stratch that i need to chuck it anyway. i have been averaging about 2 a year. i abuse the hell out of them so 6 months seems like a good long time to me. the KMC chain has been much better to me than all the sram stuff i ran in the past. |
Originally Posted by Six jours
Andre, you can also "tune" a cog yourself. Use a round jeweler's file and "break" all the sharp edges around the teeth. The same file -- or a dowel with jeweler's rouge, valve grinding compound, or emery paper -- can then be used to polish between the teeth where the chain runs. Finally, you can use a flat file, or -- carefully -- a Dremel-type tool to smooth the machining marks on the teeth themselves. This is essentially what EAI does with the Superstar cogs.
I have no experience with the Gold Medal cogs, but don't think the idea has much merit. I believe the shape and smoothness has much more to do with the feel of the cog than does any coating -- and I'll bet the coating doesn't last more than a dozen hours of use. either way, i'm a dumb idealist and a $99 cog is not in my realistic future budget, i'm just gonna sell off this 19T EAI for an 18 or 17T phil wood. |
i think i heard something about that coating keeping the cog from ever wearing away. marketing hype maybe? |
i think i heard something about that coating keeping the cog from ever wearing away. marketing hype maybe? |
Originally Posted by fixedfiend
bigger doesn't necessarily mean better. IMO
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EIA makes a good product, but, they are very thick cogs, which can mess up your chainline.
The superstar is also a bit soft. I have been running a superstar for about 3 months, and because the chainline was out 1mm (because of the thickness) I have chain wear grooves on the outside of the cog. I am going Phil now, the thickness & quality is perfect. |
Originally Posted by jchou701
As far as chains... does anybody know anything about the HKK chains in comparison to IZUMI?
using the vertex b/c it's cheaper than the izumi v. $25 vs. $30. the all blue (more like black tho) vertex is even cheaper about $15US. packaging for both is very nice too. reminds me of a chocolate bar. |
man ****... chainline is perfect with an EAI, which means it may get thrown off w/ a phil wood huh? oh well, i think i'm just gonna keep pushing 49x16, because it's all around fun except when pulling out of stop lights.
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Andre,
I think my 1/8" Phil was 7.4mm wide overall, the tooth is 3mm (going from memory). That puts the chainline from shoulder at 5.9. 1/8" EAI is 6.73 according to Mr. "Interchangeabilitude" Sheldon. I could be a little off, I have a crappy caliper. Anyway, I think you could easily get a spacer in there and still have enough thread for a lockring; though that may not be ideal for you. With me, my goal is to have 14 thru 17 tooth Phil cogs so I can get a full range of geraring (91 - 75 G.I.). I may even get a 13t... |
I use a KMC chain, all you guys talking about it being 7$... im paying 8eu!
I keep it clean and lubed (as i do with all my chains). Its silent. And lube it with REAL lube, and let it set for a while (10min), then wipe all the excess lube with a puffy towel. After a few rides i some times have to re wipe. |
I use a super gnarly Wipperman BMX chain. Had it for years and have never had an issue with it. The thing weighs like three pounds, is noisy as hell, and kinda tears up cogs/chainrings, but I love it.
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Originally Posted by reinventingevan
I use a super gnarly Wipperman BMX chain. Had it for years and have never had an issue with it. The thing weighs like three pounds, is noisy as hell, and kinda tears up cogs/chainrings, but I love it.
Get a ruler and measure it. Over 12 1/16", toss it. Sheldon: The standard way to measure chain wear is with a ruler or steel tape measure. This can be done without removing the chain from the bicycle. The normal technique is to measure a one-foot length, placing an inch mark of the ruler exactly in the middle of one rivet, then looking at the corresponding rivet 12 complete links away. On a new, unworn chain, this rivet will also line up exactly with an inch mark. With a worn chain, the rivet will be past the inch mark. This gives a direct measurement of the wear to the chain, and an indirect measurement of the wear to the sprockets: ● If the rivet is less than 1/16" past the mark, all is well. ● If the rivet is 1/16" past the mark, you should replace the chain, but the sprockets are probably undamaged. ● If the rivet is 1/8" past the mark, you have left it too long, and the sprockets (at least the favorite ones) will be too badly worn. If you replace a chain at the 1/8" point, without replacing the sprockets, it may run OK and not skip, but the worn sprockets will cause the new chain to wear much faster than it should, until it catches up with the wear state of the sprockets. ● If the rivet is past the 1/8" mark, a new chain will almost certainly skip on the worn sprockets, especially the smaller ones. |
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