humancongereel

from everything i've heard, asheville sounds like a nutso place.

freebird

Dude, I cant believe they let you anywhere near a track on that thing. No offense meant here, but you are a total nut-job. I'm in awe.

mattface 

well geometry aside, that elostomer suspension thingy on your bike is gonna rob power. If you can ride that thing safely on the track, and they'll let you, then more power to you, but don't delude yourself into thinking you can go faster on it. Stiff light frames are faster, and better handling, and while I'm sure it's great for it's intended purpose, your Airnimal is no race bike.

kemmer

You're right that folders *in general* sacrifice handling for foldability. The way a bike handles has very little to do with the size of the wheels and everything to do with the geometry. Sure, the rake of the fork has to compensate for the smaller wheel, but you could easily design a very stable bike with 20" wheels just like it isn't hard to design a super twitchy bike with 700c wheels. Folders *in general* tend to be twitchy due to the short wheel base (for foldability) and overall geometry (again for foldability), not due to the size of the wheels. It's silly to assume that the Folder in question handles like the Dahon or whatever other folder you have ridden. Look at the pictures of his bike all folded up from his site, it doesn't fold down nearly as well as a Dahon which leads me to believe it was designed to fold without compromising handling too much.

I do agree that a folder may not be the best choice for the track, but a track bike probably isn't the best choice for the street but people do that all the time.

dutret

No, small wheels by themselves have a huge impact on handling especially at speed. The size alone means they do not provide the same gyroscopic effect of large wheels. This profoundly effects handling.

Further, as I already pointed out, the super long stem(steerertube whatever you want to call it) and small wheel limits the rake/ht angle combinations you can use without messing up the balance.

Sure some folders will be better then others but they all suck compared to a real bike.

After looking at his blog I am even more convinced of the inappropriatness of this bike. Rear suspension? On something that was already sloppy. Far from being the performance machine you and he describe this bike is equivalent to a hybrid with all the baggage of a folder too. NOT a good choice for the track.

kemmer

I never claimed it was a high performance machine, just that it doesn't look like your average folder to me. I'm also convinced that you can make a 20" wheeled bike that handles just as well as a 700c bike. The gyroscopic effect is not important. Some dude built a bike with a set of fly wheels the rotated the opposite direction of the wheels to cancel the gyroscopic effect and it did not affect the stability or handling of the bike. Obviously you can compensate for the headtube angle by changing the trail of the fork. While it's true that there are limits to what you can do, I remain convinced that it is possible to design a folding bike with good handling. I don't know if mintyai's bike is such a machine, but I don't see any reason to think it would be dangerous for him to ride it on the track.

dustinlikewhat

it is. fun to visit, just don't move there.

dutret

As I have said twice now having a steerertube that comes up all the way to the bars limits your freedom in setting up head tube angle and rake. Make the headtube shallow and you push the bars back. make it steep with low rake and the balance gets ****ed because the bars are too far forward. This is a concern with all bikes but because of the axle to ground/axle to fork crown/fork crown to bar distance on a folder it is much harder to deal with. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough before regarding balance and steering geometry.

Just because you CAN ride a bike without gyrosopic effect does not mean it handles exactly the same. I don't think even the guy who made the flywheel bike you mentioned would claim that.

mintyai

Cheers kemmer for sticking up for my bike. First, you are right that airnimal sacrificed folding ability for handling, you have to take the front wheel off to fold the bike and then it still doesn't get that small. It is intended to fold so that you can put it in a suitcase and take it on the plane. The coolest time I have used the folding was to take it on the bus when I had a puncture in the rain at night - it was a pain to carry it on and find a place for it (not something I would like to do every day, but it was better trying to fix a flat with mud and crap all over my wheels in the dark.

I would not call that yellow thing at the back proper suspension, it only has about 2-3 mm of travel and I spaced it out so that it is a scant 2mm now. It is more to compensate that the 24" (note, not 20") wheels are stiffer than 700C wheels, shorter spokes, less springy rims etc. The carbon fork does the same job at the front.

Duret, what's all this about "good handling"? could you please define this. As I see it a smaller wheeled bike is generally going to be more responsive than a 700C bike (that is why I prefer it) so you are looking for unresponsivness? or could it be that you ride 700 bikes all day long and so your body is used to the feel of that and when you try something else, it feels wrong... I ride this all day long so when I ride a 700 bike it feels wrong to my body. Why can't handling be a personal thing like saddle choice or god forbid, al vs steel? (I really know how to calm down a debat huh?).

For my riding position, I have changed the bars to the top of the stem now thanks to the advice on this forum, I just found it strange that handlbar position could affect pains in my butt.

I would like to invite you to try my bike (if ever you are in London) and then see what you think, it is very different to any other bike that I have tried and so I think it is a little unfair to criticise it without riding.

Lastly you should also check out moulton bikes https://www.alexmoulton.co.uk/ really amazing bikes. Alex Moulton did lots of serious research into what was the best wheel size and reasised that 20" with good suspension was the way to go. They ride like you are floating on air, which is an amazing experience, but I found it a little bit disconected from the road. They are very fast as well, they hold the speed record for cycling in an upright position at 51.29 mph (unpaced, but with a fairing). If you ever get a chance to ride one of them, you should jump at it. They also used to ride moultons on the track with something like a 64/14 gearing. I would have loved one, but they are a bit pricey for me.

jodypolk

i totally dig your project, but i'm starting to think that you are absolutely crazy...

i thought it was just that, a project. is it really your "bike"?

get it off the track, it has absolutely no place there, and you defending it makes you sound silly.

also, whatever track that is allowing that thing on it has gotta be more of a go-cart course than a velodrome.