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-   -   the greatest place on the internet (https://www.bikeforums.net/singlespeed-fixed-gear/321589-greatest-place-internet.html)

Pfutz 07-17-07 12:32 AM

I would like to formally congratulate the entire internet for unexpectedly taking itself much to seriously.


...again


I hope both Ken Cox and NYCBikeSnob will be able to make it to the award ceremony

EMT 07-17-07 01:17 AM


Originally Posted by Pfutz
unexpectedly

? :)

Placid Casual 07-17-07 05:12 AM


Originally Posted by thebristolkid
I continue to come here for pictures of cats with funny captions.

Perhaps not funny as such, but...relevant, no?

Observe:

http://kscakes.com.nyud.net:8080/Lol...ike-riding.jpg

Gordiep 07-17-07 08:43 AM


Originally Posted by crust & crumb
Improper use of the adjective "concerted", or so it seems.

It's correct, according to the OED. Only problem with this usage is the tautological 'very,' adverbially modifying 'concerted,' but that's probably a deliberate choice, and is consistent with his hyperbolic style.


I'd say that BSNYC's writing is some of the best on the Intertubes; few people are so consistently acerbic, witty and observant. Of course, he's only been around for a couple of months; I'm curious to see how long he can maintain the quality. I'd say that one of his greatest virtues is that he isn't malicious or mean, and often mocks his own riding abilities (he's made several comments concerning his lack of aptitude in races). I think that most of the rancor he's earned is due to many of his shots landing rather close to their marks. Reading his site is a refreshing antidote to all the d***-waving that goes on in the forums, and I think that people who believe he's 'serious' aren't getting the message...they should try crushing some tinfoil on their antennas, maybe they'll get a clearer signal.

Dumpsterlife 07-17-07 09:10 AM


Originally Posted by thebristolkid
I continue to come here for pictures of cats with funny captions.

Yep!!!

Placid Casual 07-17-07 06:19 PM

If the OED thinks that it's possible for one person to make a concerted effort on his own, the OED has veered waaaaaay too far toward "descriptive" dictionarifying (that's a real word, because I just typed it on the Internet).

Placid Casual 07-17-07 06:21 PM

I've noticed that the Bike Snob gets a lot of things wrong. Factually wrong, I mean. What separates him from the Dutrets of the world is that when his errors are pointed out to him, he usually admits to them.

JaredG 07-17-07 06:33 PM

I'd like to thank Mr. Cox of implying that I wrote the beloved BikeSnobNYC blog. I'd love to sit down with you over a nice lunch, but after much thought, I think you may get upset (think Hulk) and rip out my throat or something. I am scared. Its much safer on the internets, please pass the salt, just a grain will do.

Gordiep 07-17-07 07:10 PM


Originally Posted by Placid Casual (Post 4873587)
If the OED thinks that it's possible for one person to make a concerted effort on his own, the OED has veered waaaaaay too far toward "descriptive" dictionarifying (that's a real word, because I just typed it on the Internet).

All dictionaries are descriptive by design. Lexicographers document usage, and generally try not to arbitrate it-- the recent 'McJob' controversy illustrates this point well. Dictionaries are a convenient resource for describing broad linguistic trends, and generally take inclusions into their catalogs only when words become distributed beyond their original subcultures. The use of 'concerted effort' to denote focused, strenuous action is pretty well established, especially in American dialect.

Who knows-- if NPR and the NYT keep running articles on 'fixed-gear culture,' the phrases 'fixie' and 'track stand' might even make it in.

the pope 07-17-07 07:58 PM

Excellent topic!

I've noticed something interesting. The New Yorker has replaced "ensure" with "insure" implying the exact same meaning.

For example: I paid the cabbie twice the usual fare to insure I'd get to Hoboken on time.

I never thought I'd see the day... very cheeky.

doofo 07-17-07 08:09 PM

i can tell you where the worst place on the internet is

the pope 07-17-07 08:11 PM

The New Yorker site?

Yeah, it seems like a grammatical concession to to me, too.

Gordiep 07-17-07 08:16 PM


Originally Posted by the pope (Post 4874362)
The New Yorker site?

Yeah, it seems like a grammatical concession to to me, too.


'Very cheeky' indeed. Nicely played.

doofo 07-17-07 08:17 PM

hipsters
http://www.feaverish.com/images/new-yorker-biker.jpg

the pope 07-17-07 08:25 PM


LEFT SIDE DRIVE! LEFT SIDE DRIVE!
(also very well played)

EMT 07-17-07 09:15 PM

wow. a debate here about word meanings?

my 2 cents. bikesnob is doing fine here. this is one of those cases where something is often used with a certain meaning, but when one thinks about it a bit it is not clear why it does. but still, the fact is, this meaning is available ...

paule 07-17-07 10:16 PM


Originally Posted by Ken Cox (Post 4866660)

If I laugh at someone else, even someone doing something I myself did during one of the many absurd phases of my life, it makes me superior and above all that.

C'mon Ken, we are all striving for superiority in one way or the other, whether it derives from making fun of people, or being the "King of the hipsters".

Placid Casual 07-18-07 01:38 AM


Originally Posted by Gordiep (Post 4873935)
All dictionaries are descriptive by design.

You could just as easily say that all dictionaries are prescriptive by design. In fact, they're both, but some lean more towards description and others more towards prescription. Defining concerted as something done by one person is, in my totally not humble opinion, leaning too far towards simple description. Yes, of course language changes over time, but letting the ignorant (e.g., people who don't know what it means to do something in concert) determine the nature of the change is just silly. Why bother having a dictionary in the first place? Just publish a piece of paper the size of a Post-It note with this advice: "Want to know what a word means? Just ask a couple of people at random. Whatever they say, that's what it means."

I'm riding my fixed gear bicycle as I type this.

Placid Casual 07-18-07 01:40 AM


Originally Posted by the pope (Post 4874263)
Excellent topic!

I've noticed something interesting. The New Yorker has replaced "ensure" with "insure" implying the exact same meaning.

For example: I paid the cabbie twice the usual fare to insure I'd get to Hoboken on time.

I never thought I'd see the day... very cheeky.

They've done this more than once? If not, I'll bet some copy editor was asleep at the switch. Otherwise...there goes another useful distinction out the window.

hiredgoons 07-18-07 02:47 AM


Originally Posted by the pope (Post 4874469)

LEFT SIDE DRIVE! LEFT SIDE DRIVE!
(also very well played)

It also appears to be a brakeless bike with a derailleur :rolleyes:

EMT 07-18-07 03:16 AM

saw one of these today actually here. cherubim frame ... well I guess it did have a front brake.

Gordiep 07-18-07 07:07 AM


Originally Posted by Placid Casual (Post 4875997)
Yes, of course language changes over time, but letting the ignorant (e.g., people who don't know what it means to do something in concert) determine the nature of the change is just silly.

Whether you care for it or not, the meaning is valid, and the usage is recognized by those of more flexible judgement. Prescriptivism is a bad habit, and is usually endemic in people who don't understand common linguistic principles, but who are comforted (and generally empowered) by being able to say "dem's da rules, pal!". Using 'concerted' to modify a singular noun is no more ridiculous than using 'majority' as a synonym for 'most' (as in, 'the majority of people don't care about this discussion'), but the usage has become common and is generally acccpeted. Careful writers will avoid these words, but c'mon, it's just a blog...his language is pretty sharp, and sniping at supposed usage errors is a pretty weak way of avoiding the Snob's critiques. But don't worry-- your language is safe! I'm sure that 'the ignorant' have been sufficiently warned, and won't make this error again....


...that guy on the NY'er cover must be a friend of that freak in SF who rides the brakeless freewheel pista. Let's hope that his document tube comes with an airbag.

pharnabazos 07-18-07 07:58 AM


Originally Posted by Gordiep (Post 4876675)
Whether you care for it or not, the meaning is valid, and the usage is recognized by those of more flexible judgement.

Just an OED question--how did you find out it was correct usage according to the OED? This is all I could find in the 2nd ed. Are updates posted somewhere else?

1. Arranged by mutual agreement; agreed upon, pre-arranged; planned, contrived; done in concert.
1716 ADDISON Freeholder No. 6 (Seager) By concerted falsehoods. 1727 DE FOE Syst. Magic I. vi. 149 These people have certain concerted terms..upon repeating which he [the Devil] is to appear. 1814 SCOTT Wav. xxv, The whole was a concerted scheme to depress and degrade every member of the Waverley family. 1860 TYNDALL Glac. II. x. 276 A concerted signal was then made.

2. Mus. Arranged in parts for a number of voices or instruments.
1834 EARL OF MOUNT-EDGCUMBE Mus. Remin. (ed. 4) p. 124 The inferior singers never joined in any concerted piece. 1864 H. SPENCER Illustr. Univ. Progr. 433 Concerted pieces need interspersing with solos.

3. United in action or intention.
1897 MARQUIS OF SALISBURY in Times 16 Feb. 8/1 The concerted sympathy of the Powers remains complete. 1897 Daily News 25 May 8/1 Europe unfortunately, concerted or otherwise, is pretty well case-hardened to suffering.

HelluvaStella 07-18-07 11:10 AM

Grammatical Smackdown!

Placid Casual 07-18-07 11:49 AM


Originally Posted by Gordiep (Post 4876675)
Prescriptivism is a bad habit, and is usually endemic in people who don't understand common linguistic principles, but who are comforted (and generally empowered) by being able to say "dem's da rules, pal!".


Ah, that must be it. It can't be simply that I disagree with you; I must misunderstand something fundamental and be on a power trip. Got it. Hey, how do I get out of this room? I command you to show me how this doorknob works!

Gordiep 07-18-07 11:55 AM


Originally Posted by pharnabazos (Post 4876959)
Just an OED question--how did you find out it was correct usage according to the OED? This is all I could find in the 2nd ed. Are updates posted somewhere else?

You can use the 'Oxford Reference Online,' and refer to the American supplement of the OED, (The New Oxford American Dictionary). I don't know if your local library offers this: some do, some don't. A few people might try to sharpshoot me here, and claim that they're technically separate dictionaries, but both are constructed by the same governing institution using the same basic principles. The entries in the American version are largely the same as those in the full OED, but are supplemented or modified to reflect peculiarly American usage, and the same is done with the Australian and Canadian versions. The original citation (bike snob) is in the US, so using the American variant seems appropriate.

From the site::

adjective
1 jointly arranged, planned, or carried out; coordinated : determined to begin a concerted action against them.
strenuously carried out; done with great effort : it would take a concerted effort for a burglar to break into my home.
2 (of music) arranged in several parts of equal importance : concerted secular music for voices.

If you have a Mac, the Dictionary.app is based around the American version of the OED, and a query will give you results similar to those you'd find in the web app.

--I've subsequently checked several other online dictionary sources and found a divide in the results. Dictionary.com and M-W both omit the 'new' usage, but the Cambridge Online Dictionary includes it. Of course, lesser dictionary makers are notorious for lifting material from one-another, so these results don't necessarily indicate any significant trend. Some Google-mining has revealed a good mix of both new and traditional usages. In most examples of the new usage I've found, the idea seems to be that the speaker is 'pulling together all his various faculties' in order to fully concentrate them on the task at hand. The phrase is pretty common in college-level compositions, and I was genuinely surprised that anyone objected to it.

That said, I realize the foolishness of our using a formal lexical reference to adjudicate usage in informal speech. Webspeech is interesting for how it bridges between spoken and written language, which were generally distinct prior to instant electronic communication. Unless a site strives for journalistic or literary credibility (Slate, NYT, etc), I don't think that it should be held to strict rules, if such things exist. Most linguists recognize that usage is all about context and audience.

I honestly didn't mean to get so involved in this, as it's not really relevant and makes me look like a prick, but this happens to be sort of a hobby of mine, so y'know...

And I'm surprised the mods haven't spanked us, yet. This discussion is pretty far afield of anything bike related.

corsent 07-18-07 04:03 PM

BSNYC is an entertainingly snarky writer; perhaps Ken Cox is reacting with just a tad too much vehemence. But am I the only person who thinks that there is something a *little* pathetic--something that bespeaks a deep loneliness--about mining the Craigslist "Missed Connections" section for acerbic commentary?

Gordiep 07-18-07 04:36 PM


Originally Posted by Placid Casual (Post 4878596)
Hey, how do I get out of this room? I command you to show me how this doorknob works!


Here's something to get you started, but you shouldn't think that this is the only way. Keep after it-- you'll get it!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Door

Placid Casual 07-19-07 04:50 AM


Originally Posted by Gordiep (Post 4878639)
In most examples of the new usage I've found, the idea seems to be that the speaker is 'pulling together all his various faculties' in order to fully concentrate them on the task at hand.

Honestly, I have trouble buying this. It sounds like a rationalization to me. People use "concerted" to mean "strenuous" partly because they forget (if they ever knew) that to do things in concert is to do them with other people, and partly because it sounds a lot like "concentrated."

And, of course, partly because they have heard or read it being used properly to describe an effort by two or more people: Owing to a concerted effort by members of the community, the old church was saved from demolition. A person who doesn't know the etymology can easily, and wrongly, assume that concerted in this case means that the members of the community worked really hard, rather than that the members of the community pooled their efforts.


The phrase is pretty common in college-level compositions,
I think it can be generally agreed that "college-level" does not mean what it once did.


That said, I realize the foolishness of our using a formal lexical reference to adjudicate usage in informal speech. Webspeech is interesting for how it bridges between spoken and written language, which were generally distinct prior to instant electronic communication. Unless a site strives for journalistic or literary credibility (Slate, NYT, etc), I don't think that it should be held to strict rules, if such things exist. Most linguists recognize that usage is all about context and audience.
True enough. But I think part of the context here involves this guy setting himself up as some sort of authority and mercilessly skewering people who don't follow his rules. Even when it's done in good fun, as is obviously the case here, it's always considered part of the game for members of the audience to try to catch such a person committing errors.

JohnnyWas 07-19-07 10:54 AM

it's funny -- and i do appreciate his harshing on hipsters, but then again, i also feel like he equates all fixed gear riding to being a fad

pretty funny guy, though


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