seriously you guys should know fixed gear is not awesome on your knees. i'm not trying to be a dick but what did you think you were doing slowing down, spinning fast, skidding?

We have lots in common: my knees would hurt if I sat in a weird position or crouched for an extended time. My legs are slightly bowed, like yours, and I had knee pain when pedaling on the "cyclette" (the bike thing in the gym, dunno what's called but I'll edit this post as soon as someone tells me), because the saddle was too high! I rarely had problems with saddles being too low (then I'd rise them, but when I first build up a bike, I have no idea how high the seat should be, and put it regularly too low at first). Not to say that a too low saddle wouldn't harm me, but it never caused my knees to hurt as quickly as a seat too high.

A few advices that work for me, and would maybe work for you, too: I take glucosamine pills every day (1500 mg/day) to keep my knees well lubed, because with bowed legs, the knees have a few hotspots - the load on them is uneven. I use platform pedals (I like the DH pedals because they have those steel spikes that really connect tight with your shoes) because I can regulate the position of my feet with regards to the pedals during the ride, in any which way it feels best to me. Don't necessarily hold back from cycling; it can help you more than it can harm you, if done properly. And by properly, I also mean appropriate saddle height, frame size and handlebar position. And finally, if you're asking for an advice from other cyclists (even pro cyclists), remember that 99,9% of them have straight legs, so they do not have and do not understand your problem and may give you an invalid advice - so use your head and keep this in mind at all times. Oh, and this goes for bike fitters, too. Having bowed legs doesn't just influence the position of your feet, but also what happens to your knees, your hips and ultimately to your back.

EDIT: I don't ride fixed. Tried it, but it felt like tension in the wrong places of my knee ligaments, so I stopped, just in case. Obviously, you can't have platform pedals with FG.
Also, while my cycling has been mostly painless (if I fit the bike correctly), I had occasional pain with geared bikes. Then I tried singlespeed for size, and now I can't go back. I almost never have any knee problems anymore.

is there anyone with knee pain under 32 on here?
I jacked my knee too from what I believe was my seat a little to high.
I think it so how hyper extended a bit during a fast down hill spin then slow down.
on the mend but it sucks bad. it only really hurts after about 15 mile but then is sore for days.
clips might be my next thing to help with a proper fit

33, but exactly same thing, maybe just stay off it for a little while?

Yah, I'm 24.

Riding a bicycle, fixed or geared, does not compare in intensity of knee impact and stress to plain ol' running.

The repetitive motion of pedaling reveals prior injuries, inelegant body organization, and/or bicycle fit not appropriate to the rider.

An appropriately fitted bicycle will do more to heal knees than injure them.

turning 30 in oct

you better find another hobbie or a proper fit.your too young to have those issues

I've had some moderate knee issues since I was about 17. Multiple bad crashes skiing/snowboarding and years of BMX will do that to you. I went on my first long ride Sunday and my knees were sore for a couple of days. I generally don't get sore unless I have the seat too low, but I think the 65 mile ride exposed a problem with fit or with my knees and I need to figure out which. I guess a visit to the doctor would be the first step either way.

Why not?? :rolleyes: I have an around town fixie with platforms it works fine

fixed gear will help heal knees if fitted right?

show me documentation/logic.

nah, it just means we ride more than the average bear, which will compound the effects of any mis-alignment

According to today's xray, it appears that it'd be more important that I get a piece of loose cartilage -- the result of a prior injury -- removed from my knee. MRI will confirm on Monday.

(sigh.)

I just wanna ride my ***ing bike.

oh shi-, you're looking at 6 weeks off minimum if it involves surgery

it's best to remove BF from your bookmarks to prevent insanity

I ride with a front brake and use it, a lot. I very seldomly skid, and don't use my legs to slow down if I've got a lot of speed (momentum). I knew my knees weren't great to begin with, hence the investment and use of the brake.

What I did at the track was, admittedly, pretty stupid. Tearing around without having warmed up at all.
I hadn't ridden round the track much and excitement got the best of me...

Got a pro massage today and some hydro-therapy and the knees are feeling better.
Got a ways to go yet...
Thanks for everyones input.
Still doing the the R.I.C.E deal a bit, though, heating it more than icing it now that it's been awhile.
Trying not to walk too much. Pretty immobile. Another beautiful day to ride.
- SIGH -

I have an old rear wheel that is fixed/free and I'm going to throw that on with a lower gear when I'm ready to get back on the bike, which will still probably be a few weeks away...

In any case, of what I said I hope you take with you at least this:due to your bowed legs, it's extremely dificult to find an optimal position of your feet on the pedals, and usually it's very different from what a clipped-on (or cliplessled-on) position would be. If you stand, are your toes outwardfrom your heels? That's typical for people with bowed legs. And that's, more or less, the kind of position your toes would like to be in while you're pedaling, eccept that this position would slightly change during the crankset revolution - when your foot is all the way down vs. when it's up. Because you can't move your toes while you're pedaling, you must find a compromise position between the ideal "up" and the ideal "down" position. The position of your toes/feet while pedaling has the most direct impact on your knees.

I'm telling you all this "crap" because I just experimented on my ride home, last night, as I had a new pair of shoes that just wouldn't stay on the pedals the way I wanted (the sole has a weird profile) and the result: knee pain.

Also, none of this applies to a person with straight legs (that is, to 99.9% of cyclists).

Absolutely.

A properly fitted fixed gear bike will heal damaged knees.

A little history:

In the 1960's I served in a small Special Operations unit in the Marine Corps which prided itself on EXTREME physical fitness.
Because the intensity of training required to attain this level of physical fitness actually damages the body, the Corps now restricts individual membership in this organization to six years.

After leaving the Corps (nine years of service), I continued to train at my prior level of intensity.
By my mid-40's, I had multiple training injuries that required surgical intervention.
The various surgeries successfully bought me another eight years of training.

In my early 50's, I went to my knee surgeon (a world-famous knee surgeon who takes care of most of the American ski team) for a second round of surgery on one of my knees.
After an extensive examination, including multiple angle x-rays, he told me I had nothing wrong with my knee (he fixed it the first time) and instead I needed to address my body mechanics.
The knee doctor gave me a prescription to see a specific Physical Therapist.

Most Physical Therapists receive four years of undergraduate college and three years of post-graduate study in order to receive their certification as a Physical Therapist.
The Physical Therapist to whom my knee doctor sent me has an additional four years of study on top of the normal seven years (let me do the math...eleven years of training).
Furthermore, this particular Physical Therapist lectures nationally and other Physical Therapists pay money to hear what he has to say.

Continuing...because I have excellent health insurance, I could afford to study and train under this Physical Therapist on a weekly basis for six years.
During this period, I devoted an hour to an hour and a half every morning to the specific yoga-like techniques taught to me by this therapist.
For the last two years I rode a fixed gear bike under this therapist's supervision (he rides a fixie, as well).

At the end of six years I had a definite and significant improvement in my general physical abilities, but my knee had still not become as pain free and usable as I had expected and towards which I had worked.
So, I went to the knee doctor again.

This time he wrote a prescription for a bike-fitting by Scott Peterson.
I didn't know Scott Peterson from Adam, but my bike shop did, and so did my famous Physical Therapist.
When I said to my Physical Therapist that I didn't see the value in getting a bike fitting from this Scott Petersen fellow, and that I probably wouldn't do it, my Physical Therapist said he would pay for the fitting if I would agree to let him sit in on it.
Hm.
Then, surprise of surprise, my insurance company said they would pay for a bicycle fitting, but only if Scott Peterson did it.
Another hm.

Well, it took several months to get the two appointments required for the fitting: a preliminary one hour appointment followed by a two hour fitting.
My Physical Therapist cancelled his morning appointments in order to attend both of my appointments.

Scott Peterson has a large suite of offices and a staff of orthotists (shoe orthotic fitters) and Physical Therapists who work for him.
The main fitting room has a full wall mirror, an array of lasers, video cameras, several banks of computers and displays, and a special table for making shoe orthotics.
On the two non-mirrored set of walls in the fitting room hung a multitude of autographed pictures of athletes I had seen on TV, most of them Olympic and professional skiers and bicyclists.

Scott began the fitting by explaining to my Physical Therapist how my foot, ankle, hip, knee and upper back all contributed to my knee issue, and he did so in great anatomical and physiological detail, pointing to the exact features and organizational factors he would correct with this fitting.
Scott then went into his extensive computerized library of videos showing various cadavers in different states of dissection.
He found a video of a cadaver's knee that perfectly matched mine in function, and he showed me and my Physical Therapist how my knee worked while pedaling a bike and while walking, by comparing the cadaver's video knee to my real flesh and blood knee.
Fascinating.

We then hooked me and my bike up to a computer...actually, several computers...and, with a preliminary fitting, Scott's assistants used the computer to coach my spin for about a half an hour while other technicians made the orthotics that would go in my bicycle shoes.
They told me I had a typical spin for a fixed gear enthusiast, and while not that bad, it had several glaring "holes."
They showed me when and where in my spin to drop my heel; where to pull and where to push, and gave my several mental visualizations that would help me concentrate on the techniques they had given me.
From a computer screen in front of me, as I pedaled, I could see the direct and immediate consequences of what I did and what I failed to do.

Then Scott put the orthotics in my shoes and made an initial cleat adjustment.
He used zero-float fixed cleats.
In the past, fit specialists and orthopedic surgeons thought high float cleats would work best with knees, but after several recent years of research studying elite riders, they have discovered they get the best return on the fitting by removing all float and super-controlling the motion of the knee and ankle.

After each adjustment to cleats and saddle (fore and aft, up and down), they would analyze my spin on the computer.
From the computer they would make more adjustments and I would spin some more.

During this fitting, Scott explained he and his father had invented and patented their fitting method.
Scott's father fits bikes somewhere on the East Coast, using a Serotta fitting bike, to help people design the proportions and geometry of custom bikes before the maker builds them.
Scott specializes in fitting people to already existing bikes, but can help people design a frame.

As the result of this fitting, all of my knee issues, both pedaling and walking, disappeared.
If, for some reason, I develop a knee issue (prolonged sitting), I have found I can resolve it with five minutes on the bike.
I also continue to do the yoga-like movements my Physical Therapist gave me, and my knees seem to require both therapies...both the bike and the movements...to stay pain free and functional.

My Physical Therapist and my Judo instructor describe my present arrangement on my bike, with zero-float cleats, as a "wholesome constraint."
Scott has put my ankle, knee and hip in perfect relationship (which moves my upper back and neck into a different relationship), and the bike holds them there while pedaling.
My Physical Therapist and the two most respected bike shops in town agree with everything Scott has done.
Put all the moving parts in a correct relationship and give them a low impact, wholesome range of motion, and they'll get healthier.

I don't skip or skid, but I do brake aggressively by strong back pedaling.
I ride no less than 135 miles per week and most weeks considerably more.
Riding my bike puts much less strain on my knees than does running (biking alone, without running or walking, leads to osteoporosis due to its low-impact nature).
Riding a properly fitted fixed gear bike heals knees.

If allowed to do...no...if constrained to do a movement correctly, a joint will heal from doing the correct movement.

At age 61, I presently enjoy the healthiest knees I have had since in my 20's.

Oh, and if anyone wants to know, my Physical Therapist gets $140 per hour for his time, and Scott charges $370 for a fitting.

My Physical Therapist cancelled three $140 appointments and paid for my $370 fitting (actually, my insurance company paid for it and I gave the check back to my Physical Therapist), for the privilege of sitting in on a Scott Peterson bike fitting.

I think I just overworked everything and am encouraged by the fact that I had been riding A LOT prior to this with no problems.
The day before the track incident, I rode in an alleycat that took me all over the city at a good pace with no ill effects whatsoever. No soreness or anything at all..

So Ken, what happens if you decide you want a new bike or even a new saddle?

yeah ken, what if your cleat wears down or you wear a slightly thicker chamois.

they probably have all his measurements saved in a file, but I imagine it's still quite a process

Stretching will take care of ITB problems.

I plan on getting into some stretching exercises.
Anyone know of any or any resources outside of a doctors office?

I have just received a new fixed gear mountain bike.

I know the distance from my pedal to the top of the saddle, and I set the top of the saddle on the new bike to match this measurement (same with a new saddle).

I also know the horizontal distance from the spindle of my pedal to the center of my saddle.
When I get a new saddle or a new bike, this gives me a starting point.

As for new cleats or shoes, I have to go back to Scott to have him install and adjust the cleats.

As for the handlebars, I choose a stem based on personal preference; I ride the bike with the steerer uncut and add or remove stack rings until it feels right, and then cut the steerer.

The critical dimensions for knee health involve height of saddle, horizontal distance of saddle aft of pedals, and placement of the feet on the pedals (toe in/out; cleat left, right, fore or aft of center, footbed tilted/level for ankle alignment).

i've been dealing with popping/weakness/misalignment in my left knee for about 2 years now. i take high concentrated liquid glucosamine every day, do foot lifts when i sit on the couch, and typically wear a knee brace when i ride. the knee brace will hopefully dissappear soon. i've also had success with a chiropractor-who in addition to treating the misaligned knee, keeps my hips and low back in check, helping the knee stay plumb as a final result. i'm very new to fixed gear. i plan on taking it slow, and using it to strengthen my body. if it turns out it does more harm than good, i'll run ss.

Agreed. I'm 46 and began riding after my sophmore year in college. After basketball practice, I would have to ice both knees and an ankle, and though I could run up the fieldhouse steps, I had a horrible and painful time going down them. Or any steps, for that matter. I'd read that Bill Walton used cycling to help recuperate his knees and liked a bike a friend had, so I bought one that summer. Although my knees have occasional creakiness now, it's nothing like it was at twenty (I also stopped playing basketball and other lateral motion sports). And I skid and ride fixed regularly; though it's not my only ride.

Fit is an individual thing I figure. A stock 62cm frame with a bit more than a fistfull of post seems to fit me exceptionally well. You'll have to find your own happy medium.