free/free, DOS ENO
 

Hi all, I need your advice. I am starting to build a Bianchi Pista frame, first as a freewheeler. I have got 2 questions right at the start.
1.
Is there any rear hub which can be used as FREE/FREE ?
2.
If start with the DOS ENO, am I going to have problems with the chain line when moving from one cog to the other? Do I have to adjust the BB accordingly? Is it true the MICHE BB (and no other BB) is slightly adjustable in this respect?
Thanks for any insight.

I know that this doesn't answer your question, but i'm curious-- if you want two speeds, why not run a single freewheel in the back (cog on one side) with a road double up front, two chainrings and something like a singulator? This would allow you to manually change speeds whenever you wanted without running a derailleur/shifters or removing your rear wheel.

Any fixed hub can be used free. You just have less thread engagement when you slap on the freewheel.

get a fixed free, run two freewheels, dont spend money on a new hub when you want to go fixed, don't get an ENO if you have a pista.

I just saved you like $150

You are absolutely right. I just did not think of sort of 'spoil' the track bike appearence with the double crank and the singulator. But in theory that would be the simplest solution.

It is surely my ignorance - you can go free/free on a track/free hub (threadwise!?)? Why not ENO with the PISTA? First time I ever try to go single speed, I do not immediately dare risk a fixed cog.

Yes.

Thanks, all clear. Just the chainline problem with the DOS ENO... Is the Miche Track BB adjustable in this respect? Does the DOS ENO require any chainline adjustment or the chainline is not that much different between the 2 cogs?

The DOS ENO would make the chainline slightly screwy. I don't have any actual experience with it, but I'd bet that it'd be noisy as hell.

If I were you, I would just run freewheels on both sides of a flip flop wheel and flip the wheel when I want to "change gears." That way you don't have to buy a new bottom bracket, you don't have to drop like 90 bucks on a DOS ENO, and you don't have to go through with all of the pain in the assedness of screwing with that adjustable bottom bracket every time you want to go from 17t to 19t.

If you run a road chain, a dos eno will be just fine and chainline will not be an issue. I run a 8sp chain and a dos ENO setup and my drivetrain is very queit. 2 freewheels are fine, but a DOS ENO's outside cog will actually give you a better chance at a good chainline since it is pushed out ~2mm from the center of the FW.

Two cheap freewheels on either side also poses the problem that you will have 2 freewheels to maintain and replace. Shimano and ACS freewheels are junk. yes they work just fine, but I have had more than a few Shimanos slip on me because they are not sealed and the prawls get gunked up and worn.

The only thing you have to worry about w/ a DOS ENO is that you rear brake pads may not line up perfectly when swaping between cogs. You have the option of running a road double up front (which is what I do) and then you have two very different gears and no chainline or chain length problems.

LMK if you need measurements on the DOS to figure out your chainline. I have a 16/18 and a 16/19 sitting in my garage if you need specs.

The other added benefit is that you will likely never need another FW unless you want different gearing or you ride in muck and don't maintain your bike.

PM me if you want the 16/18. It is like new, and I never use it since I always just use my 16/19.

Lots of good information there, but the Pista doesn't have one of them rear brake holes so you don't have to worry about the pads lining up.

I was going to say something earlier, but I didn't want to start the rear brake vs. no rear brake debate.

Just get a fixed/free, non eno hub, and enjoy. No need to limit yourself, especially when its costing you more money.

Ah, did not know that. Since there is no rear brake, no reason NOT to get a DOS IMHO. I subscribe to the "buy the best" rule because I eventually always find that I upgrade (which ends up costing more in the end).

We aren't talking about ENO hubs, we're talking about ENO freewheels. And an ENO hub hardly limits you, it just isn't necessary to use one in this case.

White Industries designed the dos eno to go with their double crankset, thus providing two distinctly different gearing options while preserving a straight chainline. Anything you're going to do with that freewheel is a compromise at best.

Except that you can use it very effectively with a road chain and its not a comprimise at all. WI did indeed design a DOUBLE DOUBLE crank specifically for their DOS ENO freewheel. But the crank/freewheel combo are only sold together and they have a 3 tooth differential. They also make 2 different DOS ENO freewheels (16/18 & 17/19) which was intended to be used with a single front c-ring. (if it weren't then you would see WI offer a double front chainwheel with only a 2T difference.... except they don't offer one).

I own a 16/19 which was intended to be used with their Double Double setup. I also have a 16/18 which is intended to be used with a single c-ring. I can see your line of reasoning, but in this case, I don't believe it to be true.

As a side note: you can just as easly set up your own double double with a road crank and a DOS ENO 16/18 or 17/19 and using c-rings w/ a 2 tooth difference. The reason I never did it with my 16/18 is that if I want to climb a hill, 1 tooth in the back can make all the difference.

Correctamundo. Thread is over.

The Miche BB is ISO taper, so you're pretty limited on the crank options without spending big bucks. Oh, and for the person who is about to correct me by saying that a JIS crank will just sit 4.5 mm farther in on an ISO spindle, this will bottom out on a lot of cranks (including sugino RD/messenger). Phil wood is also adjustable, but $$$. There is really no reason to do this anyway, you'd have to pull the cranks every time you wanted to change gears.

I'm a little unclear on what you're trying to do here. If you want multiple gears, ride a geared bike. If you want a bailout gear, run two freewheels. The Dos Eno and stuff like that can be used the way you want to, but it seems weird to want to go SS and then do as much jingus stuff as possible to the bike to make it like a geared bike. Don't get me wrong, you can do what you're talking about, but this is one of those kinds of builds that you shouldn't really do until you know a lot more about what you really need and how bikes work.

Also, you will not die if you run fixed, I promise. All bikes were fixed gear for decades and we seem to have survived as a species.

You are correct and Shedlon agrees, too.

JIS crank will just sit 4.5mm farther in on an ISO spindle.

I was going to type out this post, but you beat me to it.

On the ISO/JIS thing, point being that I've tried this on 3 cranksets, 2 bottomed out and one inexplicably just fell right the **** off after about 10 miles even though I put it on to spec with a torque wrench. I try to match crank and BB brands as much as possible with ISO, it seems like it just goes better.

Wait, that's impossible - there's, like, a big fscking bolt that keeps those cranks on.

Yep, like I always said before, in theory it works but do you really want to be effing up $500 Campy record cranks because you were too lazy to buy the right bb?

Funny you mention that, i know someone who went through that exact experience.

If the bolt could keep the cranks on they wouldn't have tapers. Once the cranks squirm off the taper the bolt might as well be duct tape. I stopped before mine fell all the way off, but the bolt was about two turns from even being hand tight.