krusty

You suffer from misconceptions about the 'freeway' involved here.

1. No semis. They're extremely rare on that section of highway.
2. You can't get going 60mph to save your life on that section of it. You're lucky on a Friday (or any other evening for that matter) to hit 30mph for even a few seconds. Most of that stretch is spent at <10mph.

donnamb 

It's not in my area, either. I figured the Torontonians who aren't crazy about what went down might like to try something else.

Even without something as extreme as the freeway ride, most CM rides just aren't my cup of tea. I'd do this if only to show motorists that it's far more annoying and time wasting for them if a bunch of cyclists obeys every single traffic law to the letter.

smp22

I support it. Nothing worth doing is always 100% safe.
And it's worth it. I got taken out by an SUV downtown Toronto the other day, I will post pictures of my super gnarly dislocated finger at some point. Would have been there had I been in riding form but I'm too banged up.

tx_what_it_do

tarcked

pyze-guy

All of which has nothing to do with people riding on it. So you think it sucks, okay, but how does any of that justify riding on it?

Jabba Degrassi

So that the people in power know how much people hate the damn thing and want it gone?

Or maybe the same way you can justify damn near any other non-violent protest.

Ride Among Us

People in vehicles hog the public streets every day and night of the week. They think they are entitled. Then one day a month bicyclists peacefully use a few square blocks and everybody gets road rage. Motorists need to learn that these are our streets, too and get used to it. Face it, with gas prices going up and up more people are going to have to commute by bike. There are still people who don't know that bikes have the same right to the whole road as a car does.

Markok765

One! One way to inform people about their stupid car use, ah ah ah!

Snails

CM does have my support in this stunt

massup

outside of chi, how many differnt cities CM took over highways

smp22

I think the folks who think that a bike is not entitled to a whole lane are in the majority. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that most folks probably think we need to be off the street altogether. I know my folks think this, I know that the police officer I was talking to the other day thinks it too.
People really are putting their lives on the line every time they bike on these here Toronto streets.

pyze-guy

And how does hating the Gardiner and riding on it for CM have any connection? Who cares if people hate it, it was CM, not a Gardiner protest.


I assume you hate the Gardiner and want it gone, so what is your solution to it? Just curious as I always hear how horrible it is, but never any reasonable, viable economic solutions to the problem of it. Me, I like the tear it down and build a tunnel. Of course never once is it mentioned how long it will take, how much it will cost, how the city will deal with the overflow of traffic across the city from the 10+ years it will take to get done, the noise and dust pollution created by construction etc.. If people in T.O. need a reminder of how well massive projects get done, look north to the Shepperd Subway line. But hey, the Gardiner is ugly so blow it up.

Jabba Degrassi

It's about more than aesthetics, but that aspect of it shouldn't be ignored either.

Toronto politicians are always going on and on about how they want to "revitalize" the waterfront. How Toronto's future depends on it. You know what though? The Gardiner throws a wrench into the whole thing. How the hell are people supposed to admire the view and enjoy our outdoor shops with a god damn freeway within spitting distance?

"What a beautiful day... what a beautiful view... I love y-" *is struck by flying semi wheel*

Also, maybe people wouldn't need the ****ing thing if transit in the surrounding suburbs were worth a good god damn. I used to live like 2 city blocks away from Steeles, in Markham. Getting downtown took an average of two hours, and required the use of 2 separate transit systems. That's an average of 20km/h to Union station. Hooray. No small wonder everybody drives.

The GO train is a step in the right direction, but even with trains that can hold thousands of people, every train is completely over-crowded, and since they all drop off at Union station, where trains are arriving and departing almost once a minute as it stands, there is little to no room for expansion.

I don't deny that replacing the Gardiner is a daunting task, but it wouldn't hurt so damn much if every other alternative to driving down the freeway to work wasn't in ****ing shambles.

pyze-guy

All too true.

frymaster

+1

Flimflam

I don't think the city cares about the waterfront. If they did, there wouldn't be those dog awful condo buildings masking/crowding/ruining our cityscape/skyline. The Gardiner as a highway definitely serves a purpose, like it or not, people drive cars - the CM going on the highway was just a dumb move, but it wasn't (as far as I was concerned) anything to do with the Gardiner specifically.

I'd love for it to be tunnelled under, I don't think it's realistic to expect people to ditch their cars, though I do believe people drive too much (perhaps a core pedestrian zone and/or core-zone toll to try and help upkeep our horrible, horrible roads?) - but it's a mentality that will be very hard to break. When I moved to Canada, I was shocked to learn/see people driving .5km or less to their corner store - it's a mindset that needs breaking - and granted, riding illegally on the Gardiner did nothing to promote cycling.

Cycling in Toronto needs really only one thing, through education:- respect on the road for each other. There's a massive amount of complacency on the roads from all angles (pedestrians and cyclists are among my pet peeves, don't get me wrong) - and (re) educating people about who can/can't do what, and what we, as road users, should do in varying circumstances (cars can be confused by a bike turning left in the middle of the road, which is a legal left turn, but looks out of place to some).

Cycling has a problem in that it's a freely accessible method of transport with no formal governance - there's no testing/licensing (and I don't think that's the way to go, either) - so anyone can jump on a bike and be legally forced to ride on the road (if their wheels are over 24") with no iota of a clue on how to ride properly. Riding safely in Toronto doesn't mean being law abiding, it means learning and understand how traffic/roads work IMO - the two sometimes don't coincide. The laws we have in the HTA were introduced for the motor vehicle (bikes were around long before, and afaik, there was no Ontario HTA back then) and are mostly fine - but there are some situations and circumstances where it's safer not to follow them (try coming to an intersection like eastbound on College at Bathurst/College with a car right up your ass trying to make the amber/red when there's a car turning right blocking my usual bike lane/curb-side area - if I hammer on my brake to stop for the light, I'll be off my bike in no time flat likely with injuries and a damaged bike, I'm going through that sucker because I prefer to not be injured than to be law abiding).

And, for what it's worth, the only "rage" I saw in this whole incident were the cops racing through to get to the offramp to direct us off - any other rage I saw has just been commentary here on the forum. We had waves and cheers, as we do on the streets, from most of the traffic behind.

Oh and +1 for the need to improve transit. Too bad the TTC and government are paying the Union employees out the wazoo instead of funding improvements/more routes. Goooooooooooo MONEY!

Jabba Degrassi

Three little words would help so much:

Toronto

Congestion

Charge

Turd Ferguson

Unlikely. Those who drive downtown to work won't have a problem paying the tax.

A better alternative would be bike lanes separated by a median of sorts to prevent vehicle traffic mixing with bike traffic.

smp22

Yeah, the bike lanes are a bit of a joke .. people are always pulling over RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME GODDAMIT ... you know Mr. Car, I can move pretty quick on this here bicycle, please don't kill me thanks.

Jabba Degrassi

At least it could subsidize bike lanes/programs and public transit.

pyze-guy

Haha, maybe help get the bike plan completed by its original date instead of the onpace rate of 2050.

Flimflam

+1 too true

I spoke to Councillor Heaps at Cycle Solutions just this Saturday (random coincedence) - good guy and all, but I don't know if he's able to make all that much headway in getting our bike plan in action.

Jabba Degrassi

Awww, I'm sad now.

August Spies

There's no danger here. I've driven the Gardiner at 5:30 on a friday afternoon...it's going to be moving at a snail's pace right through to Burlington. What is dangerous is the truly horrific amount of tax dollars spent building boondoggles like that aweful highway, possibly the most congested roadway in the most congested city in the country. 5:30 pm, being, of course, by far the worst time.

Southern Ontario has been increasingly built along lines like this - huge mega-roads, off limit to cyclists, pedestrians and most transit, to get tens of thousands of single-occupant vehicals from bedroom communities, often 50km or more away to their downtown Toronto jobs. The price for this kind of planning, in both fuel and money (Hamilton, where I live, has recently spent half a billion destroying wilderness to build more highway infrastructure from our suburbs to the QEW, and now is pondering more), is beyond most of our comprehension. As a result, downtown Toronto is so unbelievably congested that wheelchairs frequently outpace cars, which only pushes the expansion out farther, as piles of people flee the city for less crowded areas in which they can motor at will. Believe me, I've got a number of friends who've moved to Hamilton recently because they could drive to work in downtown TO in far less time than they could from North Toronto. Quite frankly, somebody had to protest this, and I don't see a much more practical route.

That said, I do definitely have my doubts about Mass rides. One has to remember that it's a morale exercise for cyclists, much more than an appeal to drivers (most often, it's more of a **** you). It's about taking back the road, and getting people excited about being on bikes, instead of frustrated, scared and angry. Unfortunately, if you were trying to get home after work at 5:30 on a friday afternoon, and are stuck behind a few dozen (or hundred) bikes, this isn't going to impress you much. For these reasons and others, I feel things like Midnight Mass rides tend to accomplish these ends better. Still, CM is a pretty big part of cycling culture, and tends to inspire/empower people, and does make a lot more of a public statement.

And anyway, this ain't half as abrasive as the time Toronto Mass went through the Eaton Centre

sammie.

Sad I missed through the Eaton Centre...