I haven't done that, but its not really necessary. Whatever friction difference exists between my WI hub and a DA or Campy hub is much much much smaller than the difference from a formula hub.

I have/had a Surly hub. I went thru three sets of stock bearings and the $6 replacement bearings - they all loosened over a few thousands miles and could not be tightened (there was no sweet spot between binding vs. having lots of side to side play). I finally replaced with $10 PW bearings which I now have over 8k miles on with no issue. They are as tight and smooth as when I first installed them.

Also friction amount under no load is not an indication of friction amount with load. One can make a bearing that spins fast with no load, but becomes harder to turn under. Likewise one can have some friction under no load that does not increase much under load.

Al

C'mon Mihlbach, this is a bit unfair. I'm talking strictly about track by the way, not street. Track racing is a niche of a niche - it's such a small percentage of cycling sales that of course companies aren't bending over backwards to make new technologies for track specifically (most stuff is burrowed from road, although historically I guess there's things that originated on the track and drifted over to road/TT tech too). Only NJS is truly resistant to innovation.

You are basically right, though I don't think I'm being unfair. NJS' resistance to change exerts a strong influence. Certainly more modernized track equipment does exist, but FG enthusiasts generally refuse to embrace it. Serious non-NJS track racing is a rare thing and only a small part of the whole FG scene. In this forum anachronisms such as heavy lugged frames, 36 spokes, unsealed heavy high flange hubs, steel drops, square taper bottom brackets, threaded headsets, negative rise quill stems, and toe clips are the norm. If it wasn't for steep geometry, riser bars, aerospokes, and an absence of brakes, you'd think this was the retro-grouch forum.

Bearing cartridges are literally the only moving part in a sealed track hub, so if you swap in some Phil spec'd bearings, you're going to be getting the same performance as you would with a phil hub. Unless your bearing sleeves are encrusted with bubble gum or something.

The Surly propensity to tighten during use really has nothing to do with them being sealed and everything to do with crap design. Oh well, the work well enough if you keep an eye on them.

NJS stuff can still be race-worthy for even pro track races though, e.g. Octalink DA cranks, DA/Suntour hubs (laced to Zipps!), Nitto drops. The 36h box tubulars make good training wheelsets/beginning track wheelsets too. At the cat 1/pro level the bikes start to resemble TT bikes with all the carbon.

But you know, one thing I like alot about track is it seems like one of the last disciplines where you can still race on a steel bike if you want, even at cat 3, and not be laughed off the field. Imagine talking an 80's Schwinn Paramount to a cat 3 crit or circuit race...

I like that too. The slowness of change, the classic look of the bikes and the simplicity of the technology are all things I really like about riding a fixed gear and riding on the track (even though I have not done the latter very much). I do like shredding the road on a nice carbon bike. But there is something very fulfilling about climbing that hill on one gear and (sometimes) passing groups of road riders and hearing them say, "Hey! A single-speed!" :thumb:

I guess that shows that they aren't really experienced riders, but hey!

Wow, Guys. I started this thread. I seriously doubt anyone rocking Surly hubs is racing. I just have a ten mile commute (each way), and just noticed a little more friction than I remembered. Ya'll are damn serious:) I live in Portland, and bikes are mainly transportation over here.

You know how many racers there are in Portland? OBRA has so many people signed up in it.