Campagnolo BB's
 

I think I heard that Campy bottom brackets have a different taper than regular square-taper BBs; they're smaller or something. Is this true? If so, what cranks work with Campy BBs? Specifically I might buy the Veloce BB and Sugino Messenger crankset, or the Origin8 single speed (don't know the name).

Thanks.

Campy, Miche and most Euro bottom brackets have an ISO taper. Shimano and most Japanese bbs have JIS taper.

Read about the difference here. http://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbtaper.html

Just thought I would throw in that the road version of the Suntour Superbe Pro crankset uses an ISO taper and therefore fits a Campy BB but not a Shimano.

wow sheldon brown knows everything

Not all campy BB's are compatible with all campy cranksets. Vintage campy BB's are a whole world of fun.

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for the sugino messenger, sugino offers an inexpensive sealed bb that is compatible with it. seek that out. should be 30-40 bucks tops.

Thanks for the info; consider me advised.

But I believe the tapers are the same on the old and new Campy stuff. Not sure about bottoming out on the spindle shoulders though.

I have a set of modern ('08) Record Pista cranks that I run on a modern Centaur triple cartridge BB (111mm symetrical). However, my old Campy N/SR (1981) double cranks will fit just fine on Centaur's BB taper. Likewise the Pista cranks fit just fine on the old "68-SS" NR spindle. Of course the chainlines are screwy, but the taper is the same. IIRC, the Pista cranks give a chainline at about -47mm on the old spindle, (and it is probably 1-2mm less, as I have never torqued it down). Whereas with the Pista/Centaur setup I get a nice 43mm chainline which matches exactly (delta is less than 0.3mm) my Formula hub and EA steel cog.

zac

I used to run a campy record BB (circa 1973) with a similar age sugino mighty comp crank set. Worked fine.

Sugino cranks use ISO tapers. There was an email from Sugino HQ that circulated the forums awhile back where this was confirmed (in case it wasn't confusing enough already).

Campagnolo changed their bottom bracket taper and the Pista spindle length in 1986 with the release of the redesigned groupset (C-Record). Prior to the now standard 111mm spindle, a 109mm spindle was the correct mate for NR/SR cranks. They offered the 109mm spindle option on the Pista bottom bracket up until 1989 when the SR group was finally discontinued.

If you check out the Phil Wood bottom bracket specs on their website, you'll notice they make a clear distinction between "pre-1986 taper" and "post-1986 taper". They are definitely different, much to the chagrin of Campy aficionados everywhere.

It's not a 2° taper? I thought it was???

The 109mm spindle was the correct mate for some NR/SR cranks. My BB was an asymetrical 113mm 68-SS, with the long end on the drive side. This was pretty common set up for the NR/SR cranks in the early to mid 80s. Now there was a running change to them (NR/SR) sometime between the very late 70s to early 80s. For instance, my cranks are 1981 as designated by the circle 1 on the arms. I could never get a clear picture of when this changed as the catalogues I have seen seem to indicate a change from old to new NR/SR at around '83 or so, but my set up with the '81 cranks and spindle seem to follow the post '83 changes. But I am not an expert and my experience is more limited to what I have used, rather than the broader Campy line.

My point though was that the tapers are the same, and JIS tapers are the same as the ISO tapers. They only differ in length of taper and thickness at onset. This will of course effect how far the crank will pull onto the spindle. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. In a pinch I wouldn't hesitate to use my old spindle. It is a very beautiful and simple set up. (For those unfamiliar think the current Sugino 75 BB). Plus the cups have those threaded dust traps. If I could get the proper chainline with the Sugino, I would be using it in a heartbeat over the Campy cartridge BB (either the Centaur or the Record Pista) I use the Centaur over the Record, simply because the Record is really not intended for outside use, whereas the Centaur is just a road triple BB, and my fixie is road only. I suppose I could use a Phil, but it is so f'n expensive.

EDIT: Are you referring to only Pista setups with respect to the 109mm spindles?

Yes and when it doesn't work you just ****ed your $200 set of track cranks. Great suggestion. If you can afford good cranks why skimp on a $20-$30 proper bb for it?

Why?