local means local and national means national

we subsidise big bussiness now and they reward us by moving to other country to avoid being taxed, which incidently is how the gov't gets a return on said subsidies, end the support and give a tax incentive/deduction to encourage the creation of more and better us jobs

and don't forget that in india, call center employees working for us co.s make below us poverty level and live as well as middle class americans, at the same time chinese workers at wallmart factories work six days a week and have to pay a dorm fee to live at the factory even if they live off campus

so it still remains that hipsters have no concept of change/rebellion and thusly the whole "scene" is a waste of time, and my question is still unanswered

what would you suggest to implement change?

what is your solution?

No I answered your question. Dismantle the whole system.
And it would have solved those issues you just posted about too.
Funny how that radical stuff works huh? (And has in most historical movements.)

but yet, there seems to be no real purpose to the hipster movement, which is why i hoped into this thread in the first place...

...and you did not answer my question on how to solve the problem as a whole, all you seem to be saying is that it should be eliminated, how should the void be filled?

it is also important to note that the us is a republic and the states ond citizens give the federal gov't the power to control certain parts of our existance, thusly acting on a community level is the way to instill change, backed ultimately by national change (the civil rights movement started with one woman not giving up a seat on a bus)

Local, in the context of a discussion about the global economy, could very well mean national. Stoping being so pedantic.

I knew one guy who wore a fanny pack everywhere, I thought he was totally lame. Then I found out he was an ex-cop with compact semi-auto in there, that guy was keewl.

I was interested by this statement. While the US has a statuatory taxation rate which is much higher than other countries (http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/23561.html), their effective tax rate is lower (http://www.cbpp.org/10-27-08tax.htm)

No other comments to make. Signing off...

Ok. If you are using a fanny pack to conceal carry, that is cool with me. It can be pink even.

The company I work for employs 40,000 people worldwide. You want to take down corporations? Who is going to feed those 40,000 families? You? My company produces materials for residential and commercial buildings. What do you expect to do, cut down your own trees? Melt your own glass? This sounds great, but does it really make sense?

Have you had any exposure to outsourcing? The wages most companies pay in foreign countries are very competitive in comparison to that particular economy. Not every outsourced job turns into a sweatshop. I work with programmers in India every day, we are in the process of buildng a plant in China, and those people are very grateful for the jobs. And social responsibility is a pipe dream? It is attitudes like that which contribute to degragating local communities.

Did I say every outsourced job will by necessity be in a sweatshop? I don't think you'd be quite so outspoken in this thread if your company was churning out coffee grinds rather than code.

Huge corporations in and of themselves weren't bad until legally they were given rights that far surpass those of most countries. They don't pay their own share, don't contribute back into the system that created them, and tend to create a non-working, non-contributing royalty.

If you look at history, that's why we have (or had) a strong inheritance tax. It prevents generational ruling classes from being formed. Landed royalty were blights on Europe's history, and now they're being re-created by the industrialists who found a way to break our system and get beyond having to give back.

Unless we find a way to stop them too, we're on our way to being Mexico - huge poor class, no middle class, and 50 families owning and running everything.

PS
Jabba, is slappy your sock puppet or secret admirer?

Also, kids like this make me pity hipsters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rji-uKhOXI

I am a programmer for a manufacturing company. We make glass for residential and commericial buildings.

And? Glass manufacturing is also a highly skilled job, especially for contruction applications.

Maybe I should rephrase this. Again. If your company were in the business of producing something which required very little technical knowledge or skill, such as coffee, textiles, sneakers, toys, etc., I doubt you would be so outspoken on this topic because most of the major players in those industries don't have an ethical leg to stand on. Excepting of course the handful of small companies who are dedicated to ethical practices.

Stop trying to compare Indian code to Guatemalan sneakers. The two have about as much in common as an apple and a painting of an orange.

Of the 35,000 employees over 25,000 of them are plant workers earning hourly wages. Sure I hack code for a living, but the majority of the people I work with are shoveling silica into blast furnaces, or have equally fun jobs. Please don't talk about something you don't understand.

I love how every time I say anything you introduce another hitherto unknown piece of information to try to rebuke me. How about I just ask a question then: Why does your company choose to manufacture glass locally instead of outsourcing?

We follow market trends. Sometimes that means the domestic market and sometimes it means international. The #1 priority is to the customer. If opening a plant in China, or Dubai, or anywhere provides a more energy efficient service at a better price, then it is a possibility.

Read Derrick Jensen.
Do some Zazen.
Get a Job.
Truth will be found.

:lol:

Some of us have knee jerk reactions to idiocy.

What specific market trend are you following right now which precludes you from manufacturing overseas?

couldn't agree more.
Adbusters actually has a lot to say, and unlike most of you guys, they are actually trying to do something.
Besides, if you don't like an article, write in.

And most people have knee-jerk reactions to when they're being called out on their insecurities. Goes both ways.

I liked this article. First of all, it was definitely melo-dramatic. I also agree that it is really arrogant to suggest something cannot change. But, other than these two things, the article is great.

I think that the author (he/she) does a really good job of describing hipsterdom. Some interesting points:

-only "subculture" that people don't want to identify with vocally
-lack of creation (no musical, artistic output by these people)
-influence of internet/blogs/cameras on people
-prowess of materialism

Again, I think that the author is really melodramatic and a little arrogant in using so many superlatives and absolutes, but he knows what he's talking about. I do think it's a depressingly empty, vacant "subculture." I never thought about hipsters until I got a fixed gear bike, and I never even knew what a fixed gear bike was until a year ago.

There's actually quite a bit of creative output from hipsters, at least what I consider to be creative. But the staggering level of blatant narcissism, and lack of any sort of threatening stance or posture, makes me wonder what the point is. The very best subcultures truly felt/feel like a big FU to the establishment. Whether it's a literal middle finger from a Power punk, the guns/drugs/desperation of gagsta rap, the devil invading the minds & bodies of the young through rock n' roll, even the destruction of property by skateboarders, the element of danger and arrest is always a factor in viability of any subcultures that really matters. As debauched as the drugs and the free love of the 60's were, it must've felt like the end times coming out of the decade of Eisenhower, McCarthyism and The Beav. That's a point the Adbusters article was absolutely right on.

You don't get any sort violent reaction from hipsterism, not even a glimmer. Which is depressing, because any worthy subculture should give one pause, make someone think twice about whether they want to participate. Almost like a gut-check to see if you're up for the pain that could be coming. Fixed gear bikes felt like that for a minute before being co-opted like everything else by hipsters. Despite the level of creativity I see coming out of hipsterism, I have hard time pin-pointing any sort of originality attached to it. The influences are so broadly & proudly worn on it's sleeves, it's hard to tell what any of it stands for.

But what do I know. I'm a graphic designer for ****'s sake, and I ride a fixed gear. I probably just invalidated my whole spiel :rolleyes: