nublet

-edit, the question i was trying to get at was

DOES FORUMLA MAKE FLIP FLIP HUBS and is there a DIFFERENCE in quality between a Formula Fixed/fixed and fixed/free?

Looking to build a fixed but like the option of a singlespeed.



Couple other quick questions...

Other than ebay, what are some options to get good priced deep velocity wheelsets?

Also, measuring for handlebars...I know its center of shoulder to center of shoulder so it should be measured like the 2nd line in this pic?

devilshaircut

I am no expert on sizing handlebars, but i would think that because the length of your grip is obviously wider than then line of your shoulder joint to your hand, you would probably use the larger of the two measurements you suggested if you are using straight bars. If you use the smaller measurement, which is forms a right angle with the bones of your arm, your hands will go inward more because of the width of your grip. Of course, if you are gripping drops or bullhorns in such a way that your grip is parallel to the line of your bike, then you might use the smaller measurement, since your hand width doesn't matter.

I think people generally say don't go wider than your shoulders so you can weave inside traffic, and don't go smaller because anything smaller won't make going in between traffic.

But more importantly, I think it is about what is most comfortable for you. I assume you are buying online so you can't try out the product first, hence, why you are asking here, but maybe you could try out some friends bars and see what size you like to give you a ballpark estimate.

Geordi Laforge

formula and joytech are not the same hubs AFAIK. they are of the same quality; entry-level and perfectly fine for your application. the difference would be a the hollow axles which you may or may not want.

2nd measurement is correct.

nublet

If they're not the same...are there such things as Formula flip flop hubs and do those differ in any way with formula fixed/fixed hubs?

Geordi Laforge

formula is a brand name.

flipflop (or fixed/free) allows a fixed cog on one side / freewheel on the other. fixed/fixed means just that - fixed cogs on both sides.

dayvan cowboy

it's possible to run a ss freewheel on a fixed side, too

SpaceFace

Sure. But i suppose thats what people would do if they own a fixed/fixed. But if the OP hasn't bought a wheelset yet and wants to run a freewheel he would be better off buying fixed/free

devilshaircut

Based on my understanding of the OP, the fixed/free is what he wants since he said "building a fixed, but the option of a SS sounds good" - assuming when he says SS he means SS free wheel. If he meant fixed/fixed, I doubt he would have said it like that.

vegipowrd

For what it is worth, I have a formula fixed/fixed hub with a Shimano freewheele on one side and a normal track cog on the other. I can't say if it is the same model of hub, but I thought I'd put my $0.02 in since you mentioned wanting to be able to run free if you feel like it.

devilshaircut

You have one, but do you like it? He might wanna know that. Kidding.

nublet

Okay...I haven't bought a wheelset yet, but i would like a fixed/free hub

my QUESTION is...is there a difference in quality between a fixed/free and a fixed/fixed hub because I don't want to deal with maintainence

also does formula make a fixed/free hub? i've read good things about formula hubs

devilshaircut

No quality difference. It's like asking if a three button mouse is better than a two button mouse. They offer you different uses but assuming they are the same brand, the level of quality/craftsmanship is constant.

Edit: Typo.

vegipowrd

You can also put a freewheel on a fixed hub. This doesn't always fit, but its a cool option when it does. Some of the Formula hubs can do that.

JacoKierkegaard

My bike comes from the factory with a Formula flip flop hub, so I'm going to go out on a limb and say yes. If you can run a freewheel on the fixed/fixed hub though, I'd probably go with that because it'll give you the option of ditching the freewheel and running two different cogs if you want.

nublet

how would you go about then...doing a freewheel on the fixed side?

I'm completely new to bikes and i'm trying to do this step by step

vegipowrd

This is a flip flop hub. (robbed from some dudes blog)


This is a normal fixed cog.


In place of one of the cogs, you can have MUCH fatter freewheel that will thread into the fixed hub. Some BMX bikes use these as well. ( I think I posted that image earlier.)

This gives you HUGE flexibility.

Since it's fatter it doesn't fit on everything, but it will fit on a lot of stuff.

JackD

Flip flop is typically a hub with fixed on one side and freewheel on the other.
The fixed cog side has an area with right-hand threads for the cog, and then a smaller diameter area with left hand thread for a locking ring. You can see the locking ring in the following picture:

https://flickr.com/photos/jack-d/2988696432/sizes/l/

On the other side there is just plain threading for the freewheel which does not need a lock ring as there is no force which would unscrew it. Pedaling backward will just cause it to freewheel rather than loosen.

Running a freewheel cog on a fixed hub is not generally as big a problem as running a fixed cog without a locking ring on a freewheel type hub.

Madisonian

So is this generally considered safe then? I'm kind of in the same boat as the OP, I only have the cash for one wheelset, and while I think I'll probably wind up going fixed/fixed eventually, I do want to have a freewheel to start out (plus I've already got one). Fixed/fixed wheelsets are easier to find good deals for online, so does anyone else run a freewheel on their fixed/fixed hub?

mihlbach

The formula fixed/free and fixed hubs are the exact same hub except for the threading, so the quality is the exact same.
A fixed/fixed hub is the most versatile, because you can run it fixed/fixed, fixed/free, or free/free. The thread dimension of fixed gear cogs and freewheels are the exact same and a freewheel will work just as well with either. The only difference is that fixed threading includes additional reversed threads for a lockring. A cog or freewheel will thread on just the same. The only difference is that with a freewheel, you don't need a lockring because you can't apply backward force. A freewheel will work with either, but you need reverse lockring threads to (safely) run a fixed gear. Thats why a fixed/fixed hub is more versatile.

For the record, I have been running freewheels on fixed/fixed hubs for years, including the formula hub in question.

mihlbach

You need to specify what type of bars you plan on getting. For drops or bullhorns, the lower (shorter) measurement. For risers or flats you want something a little wider to accommodate the fully pronated hand position, but risers and flats can be cut down to length, so you should buy wide and cut them when you have a better feeling for how wide you want them to be.

nublet

mihlbach, thanks! you're post has been really helpful...as far as a freewheel cog goes, which one are you using and where can i buy one?

for the bars...I plan on buying some rb-021 if that helps

Madisonian

Thanks mihlbach for the perfectly clear answer...fixed/fixed here I come!

ianjk

Fixed/Fixed is also nice if you trash the threads on one side, just toss the cog on the other...

mihlbach

White Industries (WI) freewheels are literally the best, but not worth the extra cost in my opinion. A lot of people swear by WI freewheels, but I've always used cheaper freewheels and have never had one fail on me. Put it this way...you can buy 5-10 other freewheels for the cost of a White Industries freewheel. Is that one WI freewheel going to outlive 5-10 cheaper freewheels? Probably not.

Shimano freewheels are the best IMO for the money. Go with Shimano. The tooth counts for Shimanos are rather limited, so if you need an odd number, like 17T, then go with a Dicta or ACS. Cheaper ones like Dicta or ACS will work fine, but they tend to emit wierd noises (dicta) or they are less round (ACS). Freewheels are easy to find anywhere online or the LBS.


For those handlebars, use the lower (shorter) measurement. That would be the standard fit..if you prefer slightly wider or narrower its not a big deal either way.

Good Luck!

ez12a

i threw on a surly 18t cog on my freewheel side along with an FSA BB lockring. Say what you will but I haven't had any issues yet. *knock on wood*. I rotafixed the cog on and since i didn't have a lockring tool i used a channel lock to snug it up good and tight. Don't forget to lube the threads.