carleton

OK, I've read most of this thread and got the gist in about 10 posts.

- Devilshaircut likes nice stuff and plans to race on it.
- Everyoneelse thinks he shouldn't spend his money on such nice stuff as he is only a novice racer.

Honestly, that sh*t is petty of you guys. This is like saying, beginners aren't fast, so they shouldn't buy light bikes. Steel first. Then when you CAT up you get aluminum. Only Pros get carbon fiber.

Here's my 2 cents:

- How many Porsche's do you see getting groceries and never break 75MPH?
- How many Hummer's never touch dirt? (something like only 2% of ALL SUVs ever really go off road, BTW)
- How many $200 Air Max sneakers never leave a walking pace?
- How many Air Jordans never touch hardwood.
- How many race-spec motorcycles have never been raced?
- How many race-spec road/mtb bikes have never been raced?
- How many $3,000 track/tarck bikes with trispokes, discs, track drops, never touch a velodrome?


Devlishaircut actually plans to race. He's done waaaay more than most on this message board. He's completed the Certification class and has more track time that 99% of folks on BF (not saying much, but it's still true).

I'm not defending him. I'm just calling it like I see it. You guys are ganging up on him. You know what? He's planing on racing them. Not worshiping them. He's not using them for hipster photoshoots...(don't make a liar out of me, man!).

So what if he likes nice sh*t and has saved HIS (meaning not yours) hard earned money to get it.

Man, we ALL like bikes and bike gear. Don't hate on the man because he's enthusiastic about racing and wants to buy ONE set of wheels instead of buying a entry level set, a good set, then a hot set. As the saying goes: Measure twice, cut once. And as another saying goes: Don't Hate. And finally: It's his money, he can do what he damn well pleases with it.

My advice:
- Buy gear to solve particular problems.
- Watch those with more experience and see with they are using. Ask them why they chose "A" over "B".
- Don't miss good deals on shi*t that some may consider out of your league. I was searching for a Pista Concept F&F to race. I found a monocoque carbon fiber Planet X for LESS than what PCs were going for. F*ck yeah, I bought it.
- If you are going to invest this much money, also be willing to invest the time to get the most out of your body and your new equipment.

carleton

More thoughts:

How many times have you heard: "My bike is 100% NJS except for the tires."...but it's never seen a track.

I'd bet a dollar that if he wasn't active on BF and you guys saw his bike in some random photo with the hot wheelset the bike would show up in the Bike Porn thread and comments would be, "Man that's hot!! Too bad he doesn't race it. Poser." Then when you find out he does race it (albeit as a beginner), the comments would be, "Wow! At least he's racing that summb*tch! That's what it's made for!!"

passerby

I dont understand why dtret is forcing his opinions on devilshc. He's a grown man, he can make his own decisions on what he likes or doesn't like. dtret are you so insecure that you get some sort of enjoyment from making devilshc look like some sort of hipster jackass when all he wants is to share a common interest and ride a dang bike?? IMopinion he's posted many more constructive and helpful ideas than you have on this forum. Leave him alone



lets not forget everyone: 'Opinions are like butts, everyone has 'em.' Lets keep our pants on now and help this man get on the track sooner rather than later

devilshaircut

Basically what Carleton said expresses my opinion. I know the gear I plan to buy is not going to matter for a someone just starting at the track. That's fine with me.

I posted here to get the best advice about equipment for a future purchase. Obviously, I haven't bought *anything* yet. I am waiting to find the right equipment at the right price because as stated before, I buy almost everything used. But I did want to ask these questions prior to racing because I feel that is the educated thing to do. I haven't even bought the pedals I asked about around 2 months ago because I haven't found a deal on them yet. In short, I feel the smart thing to do when buying is ask early then shop around.

Anyhow, that being said, feel free to hate me or love me for the decisions I make. I encourage you to flame me as much as you want on BF because I have little control over that. I only ask that you don't stalk me IRL. That's just creepy. And at this point my friends are probably going to be on the look out for people randomly photographing my bike. That is all.

pitboss

carleton - you know me better than that (think "one six five"). anyways, my point is hype and the way it infects this forum like algae in a summer pond. asking which aero wheels in a fourm like this usually generates answers that center around looks versus performance. Prove to me that this statement is a fallacy and I will send you what track gear I have left (you gotta pay shipping tho!).

and to be honest, running out and buying the top notch set of wheels one can buy for a specific niche of cycling can sometimes lead to loss of interest. Having the desire to win and do better should focus more on riding and training than equipment. Having a good start in cycling is one thing, having trained for years in specific disciplines is another. Most folks who have been on a bike for more than 5 years and are still at it will attest to the simple philosophy of:
"Get better gear once you get better"

sure, you can buy whatever the hell you want, but why go balls out on gear after 1-2 years in the saddle? It just doesn't make sense to me at all. Are there "loaner" wheelsets at shops? Or is anyone local selling a set of 'aero' wheels you can get for cheap? I would recommend that route first.

carleton

You are so right. I think BF is keeping the Aerospoke, Brooks, and MKS companys alive. I don't any other bikers that ride or race them.

Also right. devilshaircut seems to be like me in that he does a lot of research before making a purchase. I guess it boils down to knowing one's self. Just like you wouldn't advise a new guitarist to get a Gibson right from the beginning it's because only a small percentage of new guitarists ever keep up with it. So, why waste the money for a guitar to play scales on? BUT, if the person had insight and knew that this person would play for 10+ years, then making such a big purchase up front would be an investment.

TRUE Story. LITERALLY happened yesterday:

At the track two guys roll up after a 20-30 mile road ride before track practice. One bike is a handmande, chrome, lugged, unbadged beauty. One of a kind. About 20-25 years old, but still awesome. Looks like it's been ridden and not haning in the garage.

Me: Wow. Nice! What kind of bike is that?
Rider: I had [so and so, I can't recall the builder he named] make it for me custom when I was in High School.

No one would EVER advise a HS kid to have a custom bike made. But, this guy who is at least 40 stuck with it and still rides it to this day. He got waaaay more than his money's worth out of that bike.

Maybe devilshaircut is that kind of dude, too.

adriano 

while were clarifying things, is there anything to be said about the "granny gear" gems?

https://www.bikeforums.net/singlespeed-fixed-gear/545755-getting-sick-my-granny-gear.html

carleton

49/13 is 102 gear inches (using the 27" method).

102 gear inches is very high for the track and ridiculously high for the street. Streetable gears are in the high 70s or low 80s. Normal track gears are low 80s to low 90s.

If he can mash that around for races he's a freak of human nature (think Lance) and he'll kick butt at the track.

I'm inclined to call BS until I can actually see that gear ratio in person and count the teeth on the chainring and cog

pitboss

carleton:
the Gibson analogy is gold - I had some knock off takamine badged explorer cut guitar for about 5 years and I played it until the neck was so warped I could have bow-hunted with it. I may not hammer out anthems to the gods on the LP I got two years back, but it is a lifer for sure!

I hope more folks get the "HS rider" mentality of finding something that works and taking the best route to it. Buying for the sake of buying is kind of defeating.

dtret7

Your shopping disorder is getting in the way of your cycling. If you have 5 grand or whatever to spend on bikes over the next few months forget this obsession on getting speedplay track specials for cheap and aero wheels for cheap and a helmet for cheap. etc. Accept that you're not always going to find an out of this world deal and get the stuff that is going to make a big difference in your racing now NOW. Sure you'll spend and extra $30 on a helmet and maybe you'll end up with mtb pedals that you will want to move over to your commuter next year if you find a deal on speedplays(good luck). Maybe the extra $150 you "waste" is going to prevent you from shopping for aero wheels right now. So be it, you'll realize that adequate is a lot better than waiting around forever for perfect.

PedallingATX

I actually have to agree w/ this. The fact that you don't have a helmet is beyond me. I mean, seriously, dude, get a 6&*^#*^@& helmet!!!!!!!! I say, take 200 bucks that you would have spent towards a wheelset and get yourself a helmet, some Look style pedals, and some shoes. Sure it won't all be high-end, but it will be fine. I used look-style wellgo pedals w/ lower end Shimano shoes on my road bike when I was pumping out 150 miles a week for like 9 months straight. Eventually the spring on the pedals snapped but w/e, I got my money's worth (they were like 20 bucks). Shimano shoes are still goin strong.

As far as the jersey/bib thing goes, I think you should go ahead and get something now as well. Your buddy may design something really cool, but it is never a bad idea to have an extra jersey and you are going to need bibs anyways.

carleton

Not to beat a dead horse (but I am swing a bat at this horse)...

- A cycling kit will make you more aero than a set of wheels will.
- Good clipless pedals + good shoes will make you faster than a set of wheels will.
- Good tires will make you faster than a set of wheels will
- Proper tire pressure will make you faster than a set of wheels will.
- A good bike fitting will make you faster than a set of wheel will
- Practice 3-4 hours a day for 4-5 days a week will make you faster than a set of wheels.
- Bar tape (If you come out there today to race with no plugs you will not race.)

...all of which cost less than $200 each.

devilshaircut

I am going in order of what I planned to purchase. The helmet was researched months ago but still I haven't found the one I want. The Speedplays were also researched a little while ago, and still haven't found a good deal. The wheels were the most recent, and I probably won't find the deal I want for a while.

You guys seem to be missing the point that I am making purchases in a specific order and that these threads I start for suggestions don't mean I am going to buy the things RIGHT THEN ... they are meant to inform my purchase ... which won't take place for a while, unless a good deal comes along.

Anyhow, I'd just like to add that I am happy going without these purchases for now ... it won't be until later that I actually buy any of these things. I just wanted to inform myself ASAP so I could have plenty of time to think. Personally, I am more than happy to ride round the velodrome in a t-shirt and jeans with my Weinmanns. In fact, this is what you will see me wearing more often than not. My goal isn't to have a competitive edge. It's to achieve my personal best and have fun.

As for the jerseys we are getting the entire kit.

Carleton:

- Cycling kit purchased (but not received).
- Clipless pedals are second on the list to buy after helmet, but I haven't found any yet I like.
- Waiting on tires to see if I get tubulars or not.
- I've inflated all my current tires to their max PSI already. Been making sure to do this before every visit to the DLV.
- I am getting fitted at PTree bikes soon, Drew just got sized, and Dawn is going next, but I wanted to wait and see their printouts to make sure I like the body scanning system they use there.
- Probably I am only going to be able to get in 2 hours of cycling 3 times a week, and 3-4 hours 3 times a week. That's just due to social pressures and my job.
- I asked Bobby to pick up bar ends for me yesterday. Long story short, I would have had them earlier after Charleston (where I lost them, if anyone was following the long/boring thread) but then my usual mechanic at Skate Escape couldn't get them to me because of some drama at the store involving a custom sized Keirin frame getting bent in a stand. Bar tape will come later when things have settled down at Skate Escape. All my other bikes have bar tape ... again, it was only missing the tape/ends coz Swim Bike Run stole them from me.

Geordi Laforge

ok now you've come back to earth, carleton.

personally, I think devilshaircut should worry less about top of the notch carbon aero wheels, get the basics sorted first. no helmet? no kit? no plugs? no shoes and pedals? if he's serious, he'd get to the shop and buy those before going to the track. that's kinda top priority while super aerodynamic futureman wheels are a luxury that are not necessary. I think that's what has rubbed people the wrong way -- it comes off as poseur consumerism (not saying he's of that).

devilshaircut

If it comes off as poseur consumerism, I am okay with that. All I have materially in life are my bikes and if I am extravagant in any way, I would want it to be cycling-related.

And if it matters to you Geordi, I do have all of those things except clipless pedals. I don't have *nice* versions of those things. Yet. If I showed up with Zipp wheels and no helmet, I could see your point, but everything I have is medium to low end across the board. The fact that I ask for advice on nice wheels does not mean all I care about are nice wheels. In general, I ask for advice in the same order I plan to purchase things.

I guess if I start a thread about aero wheels, it is easy to think that is all care about, but that isn't the case.

carleton

devilshaircut,

Speedplays are popular with road, track, and casual riders. You will not find them on sale or used in good condition for cheap. If you do you are very, very lucky. Just buy them at suggested retail and get it over with. Get them before you do your bike fit. They are part of the equation.

Bar plugs are cheap. You definitely don't need to order any. They are laying around the floor of any bike shop, just like valve stem caps. They come in any $10 pack of grip tape.

Get a $30 helmet from Performance on the way to the track.

Talk to Bobby about this stuff. That dude is fast. I'm growing my beard to be like him.

carleton

Here's the thing, I used to spend WAAAAAY more money on booze, partying, sneakers, and tuning VWs. I've given all of that up. I have no problem whatsoever having a bike and 2 sets of wheels worth $2,000+ total.

I used to have $200 (MSRP, BTW) sneakers that I would wear once a month. $125 on Speedplay Zeros that I'll use 5 days a week for a year or two. No problem

devilshaircut

About the bar plugs, I actually had some lying around my house but I gave them away to someone as I generally get them free from Skate Escape. But I wasn't able to get there (nor did I want to go) coz of what happened to Drew's bike, so I basically just sent Bobby off to get some for me. I am at work all day today til the track so I can't get any myself.

I am willing to buy the Speedplays new, but I am waiting to see if I can get them at cost. One reason I ask first and buy later is because I tend to be strangely good at getting things for free or for cheap. Most of my bike parts I got for free including a new H+Son rim and new gold Nitto Pearl stem. It is usually just a matter of waiting.

I picked out a helmet (an aero helmet, rofl) but I was waiting to see if my friends thought that was just too silly coz I'd likely wear it out on the streets too for laffs.

As for the second part, I am basically in the same boat. I really only spend money on bike stuff, aside from food. I tend to eat out a lot but I don't waste money on booze cept for the occasional beer. :/ Sometimes a new pair of jeans also.

devilshaircut

Why do you care so much about what I do and why I do it?

That is what I really don't get about you. Trolls and flamers are common on message boards but honestly you seem strangely concerned about me and went so far as to figure out where I would be so you could take pictures of my bike. Are you my dad? Amirite? Seriously though this is a little too Silence of the Lambs for me. It's pretty creepy for you to watch me at the velodrome without my knowing who you are. Probably not the only person who feels this way.

carleton

I think dutret has a crush.


BTW, an aero helmet is not legal for a mass start event (group race). You could put somebody's eye out with that thing. Unplugged bars can take a core sample of flesh out.

devilshaircut

You seem to be the only person laughing, everyone else I've forwarded this thread to thinks you've managed to take this whole internet thing a LITTLE too far when you decided to track me down at DLV this past weekend.

If my bike passes for a joke I am pretty sure you have zero sense of humor. If you really think it is tarck, please feel free to talk to the mechanics in Charleston who removed my bar ends and tape (without asking me, I might add). Personally, I have no beef with them.

You really know nothing about me but love to judge me as if you actually know me so here are some more things to fuel the fire for you:

- I ride quads, not inlines (vintage ones, to boot).
- I got practically all my shirts from American Apparel; I also wear Ray-Bans.
- I have a mustache.
- My 75s cost more than the frame they are currently mounted on.
- I am awesome at tricycle racing.

Anyhow, dtret, thanks for reading ... I'll see you at the track! I mean, you'll see me at the track and I won't know who you are. Zzzinggg~!

devilshaircut

Yes yes, I am aware of all this already. That is why, before dtret had even said anything, I had requested bar ends as well as a helmet. Oh and Carleton ... if you want ... add me on Facebook. You will see many pictures of me on bikes, but zero of what you might call "hipster photoshoots". I generally do not take pictures because I prefer my experiences stored in my brain filtered with the haze of memory.

Anyhow: Dtret, please feel free to come to the track and laugh at me to my face. I encourage you to come up to me and call me a tarck n00b. In fact, I'll buy you dinner if you come up and embarrass me in front of all my friends and the pros at the track by insulting myself and my bike. Please contrast your superior biking knowledge and skills with my lowly n00b ways for everyone at the velodrome to see. I am sure they would all find it just as funny as you do. This would easily be the highlight of my cycling experience. "This kid asked about aero wheels ... OMG he must be REALLY dumb!". I am more than happy to ask these questions and get laughed at by you on behalf of all the other people who want to know. Despite what you might think, not all of us aspire to be professional cyclists nor do we worship such people. Nor do we hate them either.

EDIT: And at least if you openly mocked me, I wouldn't be all weirded out that I am being watched at the velodrome without my knowing. And it would be a *lot* less weird than waiting til you get home to harass me online.

Geordi Laforge

I havent followed the thread extensively, so that's good news. And there's nothing wrong with upgrading -- we all know that.

Buy some $3 velox plugs (they're the best), some Fizik tape, SPD-Ls or Speedplays, and a Bell Sweep or Giro or whatever fits from your local shop. Done and done...and you'll be set with quality stuff.

devilshaircut

Geordi: Reading this thread is a fate I wish on no one, not even you.

In case anyone wants to know my official upgrade order/progress it goes thusly:

1. New frame. (Done.)
2. New drivetrain. (Done.)
3. New steering column. (Done.)
4. Reapply bartape/etc. (Will be done as soon as Bobby gives me my new stuff in like 2 hours.)
5. New helmet (as opposed to my borrowed one).
6. New pedals (Speedplays). (Not done.)
---> Somewhere in here I am replacing my road bike with a nicer one. <---
7. New wheels. (Not done.)
8. New tires. (Not done.)
9. Trade for a shorter stem. (Not done.)
10. Buy seatpost with carbon fairing. (Not done.)

I don't think any of you actually care about what I plan to do. But I think one person does (evidently).

Geordi Laforge

...and pick up some lyrca.