2wheelsgood

this thread is still going?!

dsh

Nope, no one has posted in this thread for nearly a week.

carleton

How you FEEL about it has no bearing on whether it is stealing or not. THERE IS AN ESTABLISHED PROCESS FOR CLAIMING ITEMS THAT ARE LOST/ABANDONED.

Yes, there is.
- You turn said item over to the police.
- Wait a pre-defined amount of time (like 30 or 60 days) to see if anyone will claim the missing item.
- If they don't, it's legally yours.


Abandoned bikes are gathered by police ALL THE TIME. They are then auctioned in the police auctions.

akkando

You can twist this stuff anyway you want.

If I joke with you, and you are extremely offended you may think I was making a verbal attack on you think I was an ******* from your perspective. From my perspective I was just joking around with you.

What are the facts? Am I an ******* verbally attacking you with jokes? Or are you just easily offended and can't take a joke?

My point is I personally believe the intent of ones actions do matter.

In the extreme case of a ****, I guess you could say if it was a mentally disturbed person who was mentally handy capped and lacked the ability to do much reasoning, I would think of them differently than someone who KNEW they were doing something wrong. Know what I mean? But stuff like this DOES actually happen all the time. Another scenario could be a guy and a girl who were drinking and or doing drugs, they have sex and the guy thinks shes into it because they are both so wasted, but can't remember much the next mourning. She wakes up the next day in bed and thinks, hey I think this guy ***** me I don't think I would have let him sleep with me? And the guy is like, well I thought you were into it? It can be difficult to say who is right without being there watching with a clear head and having 100% of the facts. That would be a pretty different situation than stalking someone and grabbing them with a knife and telling them to get naked, right?

devilshaircut

Not twisting what you said, nor am I offended.

Just saying, being convinced you are in the right doesn't make it so.

akkando

Someone else being convinced it is wrong doesn't make so either.

Seeing as how it seems to be a gray area I am willing to let the person taking the frame determine if they are playing the role of thief or not since the owner does not seem to be around.

When they locked I am sure they wanted to keep it.

As much time has past and many parts have been taken off the bike and it has still been neglected by the original owner and time still continues to pass with no sign of care from the original owner it becomes less clear if the owner has just abandoned the bike or not. I can see how someone could easily to the conclusion its abandoned OR still owned by the original owner depending on your perspective.

dsh

So I take it you've never picked up a quarter off the street? Or read a newspaper someone else left on the subway?

We all know there are laws and regulations in place for these kinds of things, and those laws apply just as much to a quarter on the street or newspaper on the subway.

What is in dispute is the objective value at which it ceases to be ethical to skip these rules and regulations.

For me, I think the "finders keepers" ethic is perfectly reasonable up to the $100 bill, but for the wallet and bike frame official channels are the way to go. The OP seems to think the "finders keepers" ethic includes a bike frame, but he'd probably stop short of claiming a 'seemingly abandoned' BMW. Maybe you and Devilshaircut turn in every wayward penny to the police for auctioning.

This thread is about the ethics of claiming abandoned goods, not the letter-of-the-law regulations which ostensibly govern them.

chs4

I would consider having to cut a lock off something to take it a moral line in the sand for me.

Obviously YMMV.

devilshaircut

Frankly, I don't see how you could "reasonably" conclude a bike was unwanted when it is:

1) a nice or at least pricey bike
2) it was locked (with a Kryptonite u-lock, no less)
3) had only been there a few months (not a long amount of time imo)

A penny randomly strewn on the ground is one thing. A securely locked Bianchi is entirely different. If you tried to report an abandoned penny to the popo, I am pretty sure you'd get laughed at. If you turned in an abandoned Pista, I am pretty sure the paperwork would get filed. Not rocket science.

CALL ME CRAZY.

dsh

You're crazy!

chaifilms

Thank you.

Ivandarken

Pathetic. I hope you bike stealing guys live FAR away from me.

And with that... I hereby declare this thread ended forever!

Cue the closing credits.

ichitz

yes.

If I was in a hospital, I'ld make a friend get my bike and bring it to my apt. And i'll treat them dinner or whatever after I'm out. There is just no way I'm leaving my bike for weeks outside in nyc. Nobody who appreciates their bike would leave their bike outside in nyc for over 24hrs.

Still.. i'm iffy about the taking the bike bit.

kemmer

What if you were in a coma?

Although this isn't the same situation I once had a bike "liberated" by someone who felt justified in taking it based on his incorrect interpretation of the circumstances. There was a cool old Peugeot mixte sitting in the front yard of this house I used to pass on my way to work every day. The front yard was fenced in but not locked, and the bike was unsecured. It was missing the front wheel and had been in this state for at least 6 months. I decided that I would like to convert it for my wife as a birthday present and so I started stopping on my way to or from work a couple of times a week to try and ask the owner about it but nobody was ever home. Finally I caught the owner home one day and he told me I could have it. Well, I was on my bike, and it was missing a wheel so I couldn't ghost ride it. I walked it to the lightrail station and took both bikes on the train. I didn't want to walk all the way home from the station with both bikes, so I decided to lock it up and come back for it in my car. I didn't go back for it right away, partly out of laziness and partly because I didn't want my wife to see it. When I went back for it two days later the bike was gone.

Fast forward 6 months or so and my friend is at a party. He spots the bike in this dudes apartment and asks the guy where he got it. Dude says "oh that thing was abandoned at a train station It was missing a wheel and all covered in cobwebs and dust so I cut the lock and brought it home." My friend told him that he thought the bike was mine and called me. I described the bike and the circumstances of it's disappearance to the guy who took it and needless to say he felt pretty bad. He brought it back to me a couple of days later, all cleaned up with a new front wheel and a nice new set of tires.

I was pretty pissed about the whole thing when it happened and I still think the guy was an ass for taking what wasn't his just because he thought whoever owned the bike didn't care about it anymore. And I think you would be an ass for stealing this Bianchi. Just because someone isn't taking care of something the way you would doesn't mean you are entitled to it.

Understanding

Why is this thread active again?