devilshaircut

No one is debating what ethics means or whether it exists at all.

What several of us seem to be saying here - and correct me if i am wrong - is that clearly the OP had some doubt about whether or not taking the bike was the right thing to do, otherwise, why post such a discussion here? Outside of trolling I see no other explanation.

Understanding

the morals behind this are interesting.

One side says what's wrong is wrong, the other says that it's okay if you know the frame has been abandoned.

which brings up the interesting point of "when is an abandoned bike really abandoned?" If it's been untouched, unmoved from the spot, if anything from a month to a year passes, it's easy to believe it's been forsakened.

One side says "let sleeping dogs lie" and the other says "free it and give it a new life". My point to the latter is why personify a set of tubes and tires, acting like it's an animal tied to a post for over a month? It may rust out there, but it's not going to get much worse then it got already.

My point to the former is when does an abandoned frame become junk? At some point in time, a harmless object laying next to a lightpost or a sign becomes garbage with no owner to claim for it. And garbage is to be removed, and hopefully, recycled as often as possible.

OP saw a bike locked up for some period of time, and the last time he saw it, it got stripped. Now, to this theoretical owner, this bike has become junk because if they have a pista it could be said they know little about track bikes or bikes in general and don't know how or don't want to build it back up, which may be the case if the bike has been left out for that long. On top of that, they didn't really lock it up well enough.

One way to see it is that someone still has to get rid of that frame at the end of the day. If OP wants it, it's garbage now.

devilshaircut

If it comes down to whether or not the owner wanted it or not anymore, fine. But there was no way to tell. Doesn't mean you just take it because something *might* be the case.

Understanding

rereading the original post, OP might as well ask the police about it, what harm could it do.

rice

Still, 'tis much better, environmentally, to use the existing frame as a new bike, than scrap the existing frame and buy another newly constructed frame.

Yes?

Oh, and can the OP give the exact location of this frame? I'll go and take it.

palladio

Perhaps there is some logic to this argument, but does the merit of "saving" this bike trump the personal value of not stealing or taking what does not belong to you? For me, no. It's not as if you are Robin Hood stealing from the rich to give to the poor. You are just taking the bike for yourself, not for the greater good of society.

Would you rather be known as a thrifty thief, or an honest man who refused to steal even when sorely tempted? Your choice, but you can't have your cake and eat it too.

devilshaircut

I just don't get it though. I have a bike addiction as bad as anyone else I know yet I still wouldn't steal this bike. I really don't understand the need to "save" a bike. I just don't see how it is enjoyable to ride a bike I didn't earn. Not even a bike, just anything. Why would you want anything you didn't earn?

And a better question, why would you want to give something to your girlfriend that you didn't earn?

Ivandarken

I officially designate today to be the beginning of ...*music please*... STEAL A BIKE AT WILL DAY!!!

Yaaaaaaay!!!!

This has been going on since bikes were invented... but now I personally give you official moral authority to take whatever it is you like, if you see an opportunity. It's all out there for the taking, kids, and all you need to do is to not get caught. (really, this is no different from how it's always been) So, get your battery powered angle grinders ready...set...GO!

LupinIII

here you go OP

https://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...257+4294965387


cheaper than a schwinn frame of CL lolamirite?





don't steal, ****sweak son

akkando

Well if one were to believe it was abandoned then taking it no longer is stealing and just becomes a little project on how to get the frame. So the whole thief/stealing thing goes out to window if you believe the owner has thrown it away. If I find something in the street here in NYC I assume it is no longer the owners and is now owned by no one. Taking it is not stealing and the only concern is the quality of the object and how to get it home. The question really is, is the frame abandoned? If someone determines that it is they suddenly are no longer having to wrestle with the moral problem of stealing.

If it is not abandoned and the question is do you deserve more than owner? Now that question does involve being a thief and stealing.

palladio

If someone wanted to abandon it intentionally for someone to take it, I doubt they would have locked it with Kryptonite. There is more to this story. The fact that we don't know the rest of the story doesn't mean it's yours for the taking.

My car has been sitting in an airport parking lot for 4 months, and I haven't abandoned it (although I may wish I had when I see the parking bill in a few weeks!).

devilshaircut

The question is, how do you *know* it is abandoned? You don't.

vjp

I lived in Tokyo for 3 years in the early 80's and I was always shocked by the hundreds of abandoned bike in a huge pile by my station. I was going to grab one and a cop stopped me and asked what I was doing. I told him that I thought they were abandoned and I wanted to ride one to work. He said that they are abandoned but they don't belong to me. He said that they will be crushed and made into cars.... Reason enough to take one but I didn't want to go to jail.

I ended up buying a used scooter from an Aussie who was heading home and after about a year it started to crap out (after a ton of abuse) and I rolled it into a shop to see if they could fix it. The mechanic said that they throw them away because it is cheaper. I rolled it down the sidewalk, parked it, left the key in the ignition and abandoned it. About 8 months later I came out of a restaurant with some friends and we were walking down the street and there was my scooter in the exact same spot! With the key still in it! I thought it was hilarious but my friends thought it was normal. The best part was that I jump started it and drove home and used it for another year. Maybe it just needed some rest time?

It's not your bike. Yet. You are not in Japan, grab a battery powered angle grinder!

vjp

akkando

All that is required is the person who takes the frame to determine before hand in their head that it was abandoned or not. It is almost impossible to have all the facts for most decisions we make in life and it some point with the information you have you make a judgment call.

If they decide that someone meant to keep it because it's locked but take it anyway because they deserve it more or any other reason they are knowingly stealing.

If they decide without a doubt in their mind that it was abandoned based on the facts they have and they take it will be stored in their brain for the rest of their life as that time they took the free frame someone abandoned and not stole.

If someone took something they thought was abandoned and they were incorrect I would not label them a thief, just stupid.

carleton

How about this:

There has been a boat in the back my apt parking lot for 7 months (Atlanta, GA). It hasn't moved. Has flat tires on the trailer. Dusty, dirty cover on it. I know it hasn't moved because I park next to it occasionally. Guess what? The owner pulls it out and washes it this week. Now he's gone fishin'. I wonder what would have happened if I had claimed his unlocked "neglected" boat.

bitterspeak

It's ridiculous that people think that they can actually change another's person mind in this thread. It's ethics and morality. We all have are own.

Sage this thread.

Guvna

Is that how you bike theives get away with it?

BIGGEST TROLL THREAD EVER.

gobby1095

So Ive been looking round to buy a pista, and was checking craiglist a couple days ago when I ran into something a bit odd. Its this frame and wheel exactly, on sale for $400. Makes no sense whhatsoever haha, just seems like a scam.

https://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/bik/1216884995.html

adriano 

it sounds legitimate.

Scrodzilla

Whoever made that Craigslist ad is a funny b@stard. HAHAHA!

devilshaircut

So I guess ******* aren't really ******* either as long as they *think* the girl wants it. And if they are wrong, well, they are just "stupid".

I UNDERSTAND NOW.

dsh

Devil's haircut has a point; **** and stealing a bike are pretty much the same thing.

devilshaircut

Not saying **** and stealing are the same. I am saying that justifying something (anything ... theft, ****, murder, whatever) in your head doesn't make it true or even right.

Just because someone *thought* a bike was abandoned and took it, doesn't mean they cease to be a thief. Can you imagine it? "Officer, I thought that Camry was just sitting there because its driver no longer wanted it, so I figured, why not help myself?!?"

dsh

The point being made, though, is that the less serious the crime, the more moral leeway there is; the more open for interpretation.

If you see a quarter on the ground, do you feel like a thief for picking it up? It's not yours, after all. You could turn it in to the proper authorities. Maybe someone left that quarter there and was planning to come back for it. After all, why would you even want to spend a quarter you didn't earn?

If you see a $20 bill on the ground, do you feel like a thief for picking it up? It's not yours, after all. You could turn it in to the proper authorities. Maybe someone left that $20 bill there and was planning to come back for it. After all, why would you even want to spend $20 you didn't earn?

If you see a $100 bill on the ground, do you feel like a thief for picking it up? It's not yours, after all. You could turn it in to the proper authorities. Maybe someone left that $100 bill there and was planning to come back for it. After all, why would you even want to spend $100 you didn't earn?

If you see a wallet filled with credit cards and ID's on the ground, do you feel like a thief for picking it up? It's not yours, after all. You could turn it in to the proper authorities. Maybe someone left that wallet there and was planning to come back for it. After all, why would you even want to go on a shopping spree with credit cards you didn't earn?

If you see an abandoned bike frame on the ground, do you feel like a thief for picking it up? It's not yours, after all. You could turn it in to the proper authorities. Maybe someone left that bike frame there and was planning to come back for it. After all, why would you even want to ride a bike you didn't earn?




I'm guessing most of us would start to feel guilty somewhere between the $100 and the wallet filled with credit cards. Some people might feel bad about the $20. I don't think the quarter is gonna weigh on anyone's conscience.

You can't say stealing is wrong on principle if you're willing to accept picking up that quarter, or that $20, or that $100. You can say the individuals moral gradient is off, and that that a bike frame should be well above their threshold, but that's about it.

devilshaircut

So wrongness is dependent on the severity of the crime? This is (obviously) a grey area. This is wholly dependent on the individual at what point they feel what they are doing is wrong. Certainly mentally ill serial killers don't feel remorse or guilt over their actions. I can accept this argument, but it means you also have to consider the amount of certainty you have over your actions. That is, say you find a quarter lying on a well-trafficked public sidewalk. Given the circumstances, you can be *relatively* certain it is lost and will never be recovered. The circumstances in question aren't as clear. The Pista (a relatively expensive bike) was locked (with a secure u-lock). Knowing this, it seems reasonable to conclude the owner did not want it taken. That something hadn't been touched by its owner for a while alone isn't really good supporting evidence that the bike was no longer wanted. I've seen cars parked in my office's parking garage for months at a time, but I don't assume they are mine for the taking or that the owners no longer want them. Anyhow, obviously situations are grey, but as such it's really impossible to give a definitive answer.

I will, however, say that I think it's very bad judgement to angle grind a locked bike free so you can take it and give it to your girlfriend.