dsh

Funny little observation:

If I was Psirue and was trying to argue that "I've never seen a BMX trick that impressed me", and then you posted that (awesome) video, I'd respond with "Pssh that's not a BMX bike, he'd never win a race with that."

That's only if I was Psirue, though, and was thusly the type to nitpick my way out of any instance in which I'm proved wrong.


Beyond that, I'll say that any of those tricks from the Mark Eaton video would be a hell of a lot more difficult on a fixed gear bike with 650+ wheels.


I don't see how you can say that a backwards pedalling, backwards facing 720-wheelie barspin is a "20+ year old BMX trick" when the trick is impossible on a freewheeling drivetrain.

I'm not saying it's more impressive than the crazy **** people have been doing for 20 years on BMX bikes, but it is certainly different.

carleton

ACTUALLY, there was a BMX flatlander named Trevor Meyer that rode a fixed hub for a while in the late 90s. They called it "direct drive" back then.

"During this period, Trevor also started experimenting with his set-ups. Being taller than most other flatlanders, Trevor had already been known to ride a frame with a longer top tube. But he soon revised this set-up to feature huge, and by most standards, fairly ugly handlebars, along with laid back seatposts, switched brake levers, and the one that caught him the most slack, the direct-drive system. The system pedaled both forward and back, and allowed Trevor to do more fixed gear inspired tricks."

https://espn.go.com/action/bmx/blog?post=3846634

Watch the 2nd video in that page. Check and mate.

carleton

Direct link to vid of Trevor Meyer riding BMX Flatland on a fixed hub 15 years ago...and killing it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZ6sFPMxjeI

EDIT: The funniest part is that the video is labeled "trevor meyer brakeless" because back then it was a bigger deal to ride brakeless than to ride a fixed hub. Hahahaha.

FlatSix911

Excellent ...

s.mire

i think that keo guy and that fast friday stuff is pretty cool,but i'm not down with the people trying to make skate video style stuff. https://vimby.com/video/life/us/all/detail/10020 these guys are a joke to me,but there the best example for anybody trying to defend this.

carleton

Andre Reyes (BMX Flatlander) is the guy that had the final scene in Bootleg Sessions.

He's at the 1'42" mark of the vid linked above.

dsh

Still not at all similar to the trick I found most impressive in the art bike video (the backwards facing backwards pedaling wheelie I mentioned).

dOOBER

I really do not even know why I am posting in this thread as it is the dumbest thing ever, but here it goes.

i rode BMX bikes my whole youth-hood, all the time, and i was never into the whole trick scene. Maybe it was because i had an actual downhill BMX race bike superlight Aluminum frame, narrow dirt tires, whatever i just enjoyed dirt riding and jumping. Now though i primarily ride my FG on the street (no tricks of course).

First - "Bicycle Motocross or BMX is a name of a cycling sport in which the main goal is extreme racing on bicycles in Motocross style on tracks with inline start and expressive obstacles." - Wikipedia first line

so here in lies a series of problems to all the arguments going on for either side. 1st. What is your "actual argument"? 2. If you ask me tricks on a BMX, Trials Bike, or FG can either be completely cool or completely dumb. It all depends on perspective, it is like saying that NASCAR is stupid because why would you want to struggle to get a huge and unaerodynamic car around a track when you could just drive an F1, because it is called SPORT and CHALLENGE

i don't know i'm not good at internet arguments and that is my 2cents

xsnakobx

I really like that video... Thanks for sharing (I hadn't seen it before).

MyWar

Fixie kids......

woody2926

FG videos are like watching a skate video where every skater in the video is doing a kickflip or pop shove it the whole time. I really don't see any variation in the FG vids except that one crazy lady.

dsh

Good analogy. Take it further, though:

10 million boring videos of skater kids doing kickflips over and over doesn't make amazing unique skate videos less impressive, which is the argument the OP is trying to make.

Most skate kids do boring tricks. Most FG/FS kids do boring tricks.
Some people do really awesome skate tricks. Some people do pretty awesome FG/FS tricks.

Fewer people do awesome FG/FS tricks than skate tricks, because skating lends itself more readily to tricking and has been a popular tricking medium for longer.

Dion Rides

Well, everybody's posting BMX videos... YAY! Here's a video I took and edited of my friend, Pete Brandt at the Clocktower in SF. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no0eDgGtdKo

Me, 20 years ago. I learned trackstands, spinning rear wheel things and other basic tricks two-three years before this. I used to grind that bashguard bike for DAYS - the bike weighed like 34 lbs. but I was able to bunnyhop up on top of cars and ride over them off the back. I could also get up on top picnic tables. I'd kill to have my old BMX frames from back then. God, I'm old. Check out the duds!



Now, me... a 34 yr. old man spinning and rolling an "unbike", hang ten style. Balance Danielson.



Don't get me wrong, I love FG bikes... but I also have a road bike, a couple MTB's, a beach cruiser and a BMX bike for their intended uses.

stryper

sure you can show me some impressive things from a sport that is 30+ years into its trick oriented evolution. Meanwhile the fixed gear bike is just a baby in the trick scene with what, 5-8 years of trick oriented development, which is only now really starting to pick up. I am plenty sure that in 20 more years I will be able to show you some insane fixed gear tricks as well.

Another example of the same argument could be had with a sport that started in 2004 called freebording. It was initially developed with intention to be a snowboard cross-training/ off-season training device, for use down asphalt hills, but as to be expected was seen in skateparks just 3 years after development. Another trickster scene.

Any snowboarder could say look at these sweet videos of these guys dropping 30 feet off buildings onto an icy rail along 20 stairs and then ask why do people even trick on a freebord when they could just do what has been done for a super long time. The first person to do a manual on a freebord didn't get it down for 3 years. Now most new riders learn the trick in their first 2 weeks. It's fun, different, whatever I want it to be.

It's all about time and popularity. When something becomes more popular it evolves quicker and more steadily. As fixed gears have been and continue to gain popularity we will see tricks continue to become more impressive and more independent from a bmx style.

carleton

Haha! I know Pete. Tell him "Carleton the photographer" says what's up! I used to ride the clocktower back in 2001 or so. There was also Dre Reyes, Bottle, Carlo, Riz, and even Mutt! Lee Musselwhite and a few other big names (at the time) rolled through every now and then. They helped me learn Hang5s and stuff.

I shot photos of Pete doing that exact link that were published in Cream BMX mag back then.

Small world, huh?

I had a FG conversion back then, too. I used it as basic transportation. Pete and Dre would hop on it when I wasn't looking and bust out crazy tricks. Ask them about that, too. I wish I shot a photo of that. Then I could have proof that BMX flatlanders started the FG trick thing, hahaha! (joking but serious).

psirue

besides a few tricks that are marginally similar, bicycle ballet only has a direct-drive/fixed-gear drivetrain in similarity to what we're seeing on the streets today -- there are more differences than similarity. I see no connection whatsoever between bicycle ballet and fixed-gear freestyle besides initial appearance. I think bicycle ballet has more in common with flatland, just as carleton does.

show me an impressive fixed-gear freestyle video and I'll give it props. I have not seen anything that does not make me yawn, however. Perhaps there needs to be a few more years for the tricks and components to mature and evolve and really push the envelope...but I'm willing to bet whatever evolutions occur in the coming years will bend toward and more and more resemble bmx. in fact, we're already see that in the last year or so: bmx style frames and components but with 700c wheels. I am willing to bet that fixed-gear freestyle will find it's way into the dustbin of cycling history as people realize they can do more on a bmx and the gravity pulls more people in that direction.

but if fixed-gear freestyle tricks improve and people stick with it, I'm all for it. The thing that gets me at this moment of history is the sheer amount of hype with so little substance. it's all so...anti-climatic.

carleton

Wait. The Dorkin video that I linked above was shot 20-25 years ago...and that was after they spent years getting good enough to film. So, what's your point?

BTW, if you watch the Dorkin 10 video, you'll see footage of a 10 or 12 year old Dave Mirra learning from those guys.

Finally, BMX tricks are impressive to the initiated. Period. Basic BMX flatland tricks will gather a small crowd anywhere. If you have to explain why a trick is good...then it's not good. The audience should just be able to watch and get it. This is why we all go nuts over trials riding, because it's impressive even to those who don't ride trials. FG tricks are lame, even to those who don't ride FGs.

Sorry, guys. I don't mean to step on toes, but that's how it is.

carleton

You hit the nail on the head. I made this point years ago.

Take the new Milwaukee Bike bike that Prolly is helping design (also mentioned in one of the vids linked above). After a few more iterations it will be no different than a 24" cruiser. Seriously.

Right now, it's more like a cruiser than it is different. I've suggested that they save time and money and just get a cruiser for $500 and get busy learning tricks on it. That's what I did on my Haro Backtrail 24" years ago.

Next these guys are gonna invent small stick with numbers on it that changes the channel on the TV from across the room.

REMspeedwagon

i think it's all about the steez..

like with skating, who cares about tony hawk's 9000.
okay, not the best reference.

carleton

BTW, stryper.

Freeboarding is to Skateboarding as Clipless Pedals is to BMX. Not a major leap. just a modification.

And yes, BMXers use clipless pedals. Just go to any BMX racetrack to see.

psirue

nah, I get you.

I get the steez thing. a bike you can commute on, go for a ride, ride to a bar, and do some tricks in a parking lot while you're out. I'm down with that -- it's simple fun.

the whole culture of dvds, t-shirts, stickers, blogs, "collabs" and "special colorway" products, etc seems contrary to the steez. I think all that is just cashing in at this point.

ADSR

Reminder: this argument is nearing the end of its third page.

Conclusion: get a BMX bike. Or don't. FGFS riders: you are not being discriminated against. Please call us as soon as you innovate; we'd love to see what you come up with!

psirue

/thread

Seggybop

bah

why not a mamachari?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCfStHFD9Rk

carleton

Hahaha! Awesome!