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so why are the majority of ss/fixed gear frames steel?

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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

so why are the majority of ss/fixed gear frames steel?

Old 09-04-09, 07:51 PM
  #51  
Astronomical
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my abs.
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Old 09-04-09, 08:36 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
Are you sure? I can find aluminum, carbon and titanium on the periodic table but not steel. I'm thinking it must be man made like one of those fake butter spreads. How real is that?
I can't find you on the periodic table, either. What conclusion should we draw from that?
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Old 09-04-09, 08:41 PM
  #53  
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Holy Fu*K.

This is the craziest post i've read on here.

Steel, Bikes, Knives, Weird Rock Band, Nutty Bars, Dictionaries, AK-47s.

Mind blowing.
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Old 09-04-09, 08:57 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
I can't find you on the periodic table, either. What conclusion should we draw from that?
Are you sure about that. I think he's made of this stuff:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon-based_life
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Old 09-04-09, 09:12 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Are you sure about that. I think he's made of this stuff:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon-based_life
OK, so we are based on carbon and CF frames are based on carbon, so Planet X and Corima and BT frames are ALIVE!!!!! But, it begs the question, can they make a good vodka martini?
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Old 09-04-09, 10:00 PM
  #56  
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The spirit of fixie fad is not about performance, but (retro) style and machoism.. It's like driving 60's muscle car.
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Old 09-04-09, 10:42 PM
  #57  
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My abs are too real for the periodic table.
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Old 09-05-09, 02:13 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by mihlbach View Post
https://www.thefreedictionary.com/thesis
Try definitions 1 and 3.

Now go back and reread my earlier post.
I really didn't understand your point. How does the fact that I like the way steel bicycles look prove whatever your point was?

Originally Posted by Ken Cox View Post
Of all the frame materials, carbon fiber has the least impact damage resistance, the least light and atmospheric damage resistance, and the highest probability of catastrophic failure:

"Materials that fail fast are said to fail "catastrophically." Of all materials used in bikes, none fails more catastrophically than carbon fiber, and none fails more slowly than steel. You want your bike stuff to respond to trauma by bending and denting, not shattering and snapping. Metals tend to do that. And once that's covered, you want plenty of time and lots of warning between the onset of failure (a crack, for instance) and total material separation. Steel is the first place winner here..."

https://www.rivbike.com/article/bicyc...rame_materials
I'm no expert, but can't that "catastrophic failing" be a good thing under certain conditions?
I remember a spectacular accident in the Tour de France a couple year ago where the peloton split in the middle because of an obstacle in the street and one rider crashed into that obstacle full speed - his bike quite literally disintegrated under him but he wasn't seriously hurt (here's a video). I think on a steel- or aluminium bike this could have ended worse.
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Old 09-05-09, 02:57 AM
  #59  
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Skinny round tubes look cool.

Also when you're riding your fixie in rural china and your frame cracks the local iron monger will be able to repair your faithful steed for you, and you'll be on your way in no time.

Note if you're touring Taiwan on your carbon fixie you can get it repaired on most street corners.

ps
All that stuff from rivendell is just marketing. They do make some really nice bikes though.
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Old 09-05-09, 04:34 AM
  #60  
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Wow, this thread went off in many different directions
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Old 09-05-09, 05:42 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Ken Cox View Post
Oh gosh.

I guess we'll actually need to bring some "facts" to this discussion.

Of all the frame materials, carbon fiber has the least impact damage resistance, the least light and atmospheric damage resistance, and the highest probability of catastrophic failure:
And for you that trumps all of the other engineering, performance, and comfort-related benefits that carbon has over steel? That's fine. It is a fact that carbon has a higher probability of catastrophic failure. It is NOT a fact that this would somehow make carbon an overall inferior choice - that's a personal value judgement.

I asked you if you'd pick a steel bike over carbon for riding Paris-Roubaix, and it seems like your implied answer is that yes, you'd pick steel in this case. That's your right, and you're probably not the only one. However, I don't think it's all down to consipiracies and/or fashion that the bikes the pros choose to race that course over that terrain are made of carbon.

In a cost-no-object comparison, I'd take a fillet-brazed, TIG-welded or lugged high-end steel bike over any other frame-material bike.

No contest.
Sounds nice.
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Old 09-05-09, 12:03 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by znomit View Post
when you're riding your fixie in rural china and your frame cracks the local iron monger will be able to repair your faithful steed for you, and you'll be on your way in no time.
When I'm riding in Northeastern Wisconsin and my frame cracks, I can fix it myself and be on my way in no time.
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Old 09-05-09, 02:27 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
When I'm riding in Northeastern Wisconsin and my frame cracks, I can fix it myself and be on my way in no time.
I've always put the "can replace a steel tube" argument in the same box with "steel tubes can rust out." I'm sure that both happen, just not very often.
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Old 09-05-09, 02:34 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
I've always put the "can replace a steel tube" argument in the same box with "steel tubes can rust out." I'm sure that both happen, just not very often.
It may happen a lot with inexperienced hipsters doing stunts on brakeless fixed gears.
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Old 09-05-09, 02:37 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by TejanoTrackie View Post
It may happen a lot with inexperienced hipsters doing stunts on brakeless fixed gears.
Sorry, I'm not seeing the connection.
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Old 09-05-09, 02:53 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Syscrush View Post
I asked you if you'd pick a steel bike over carbon for riding Paris-Roubaix
When you consider the fact that:
A) These riders are riding disposable bike that will never be used on another day
B) When mishaps happen these riders have backup bicycles
C) These riders weigh less than most non-profession athletes
D) These riders are not riding "off the shelf" frames
You'll realize that the PR is a bad litmus test. Comparison to what one single frame you would want to use for a couple cyclecross seasons would reveal more accurate results, though even this would be an analogy with flaws. The simple fact is that for the majority of road riders riding in any sort of urban environment, steel is the most merited choice. What would I want to retrace the PR route at a relaxed pace on? A titanium mountain bike or a cyclecross bike, with front suspension, not a UCI approved road racing bike. What are the only two frame materials I'd ride NYC fixed with? Lugged or fillet brazed steel or quality ti. I ride a handmade lugged steel Panasonic.
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Old 09-05-09, 04:11 PM
  #67  
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^^
I don't think A) is true, even the biggest pro teams don't have the budget to use up hundreds of $10K+ bicycles every year.
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Old 09-05-09, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by rogwilco View Post
^^
I don't think A) is true, even the biggest pro teams don't have the budget to use up hundreds of $10K+ bicycles every year.
At least when it comes to the bigger pro teams, the bike frames used in the PR are designed specifically for and used only for the PR. The frames tend to have more slack geometry than what would be used for more normative road racing. But in a general sense as well, the carbon frames you see these riders riding are frequently replaced. As for how much the frames cost the teams, and what kind of budgets they operate under, this is a pretty much moot point as many teams don't pay a cent for the frames. Bicycle companies sponsor teams and riders.

And yes, the carbon frames the riders are riding are replaced more frequently than steel frames were. Ask yourself this simple question: When was the last time you saw somebody riding a carbon frame that was bought used after a pro had ridden it for a season? There are steel frames floating around that have had multiple racers race multiple seasons on them.

Last edited by acoldspoon; 09-05-09 at 04:40 PM.
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Old 09-05-09, 05:17 PM
  #69  
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Let's not forget that fixed gear bikes were targeted for messengers. A bike that's durable, no frills, not complicated to use and mainly, not much upkeep. Steel is the most durable among the inexpensive frame materials that can take abuse. Like hopping curbs, doing wheelies, locking it up with a chain on a lamp post with little concern for scratches.

Aluminum is also inexpensive but it scratches easily and not as durable as steel. However, if you are talking Track bikes, then Aluminum and CF will out-weigh and out-stiff steel.
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Old 09-05-09, 08:04 PM
  #70  
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The reason why the majority of SS and fixed gear frames are steel is because it is cheaper for Asian manufacturers to TIG-weld a decent steel frame than it is using other materials. It has nothing to do with messengers, magical ride qualities, the "reality" of steel, or the price of tea in China. That is the only reason, and anyone who says otherwise should do their homework.
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Old 09-05-09, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by rogwilco View Post
^^
I don't think A) is true, even the biggest pro teams don't have the budget to use up hundreds of $10K+ bicycles every year.
The bikes cost next to nothing for the manufacturer to produce and are provided to the team free of charge. The rest of the bike industry subsidizes these bikes with the purchase of $6000 Madones and what-have-you.
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Old 09-05-09, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by acoldspoon View Post
And yes, the carbon frames the riders are riding are replaced more frequently than steel frames were. Ask yourself this simple question: When was the last time you saw somebody riding a carbon frame that was bought used after a pro had ridden it for a season? There are steel frames floating around that have had multiple racers race multiple seasons on them.
Actually this is quite common. Last year's Pro Tour frames are being used by domestic Euro, Asian or South American teams.
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Old 09-05-09, 10:32 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
Are you sure? I can find aluminum, carbon and titanium on the periodic table but not steel. I'm thinking it must be man made like one of those fake butter spreads. How real is that?
I just have to say this is the funniest thing I've read on BF in a while.
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Old 09-05-09, 10:36 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by acoldspoon View Post
D) These riders are not riding "off the shelf" frames
Cervelo makes a big deal out of the claim that the riders on their teams are, in fact, riding "off the shelf" frames. Not the case with every manufacturer, and maybe they're lying. But that is their claim, and I'd actually be surprised if it's not the case.

Look, I'd have to be an idiot to claim that carbon is as tough, long-lived, cheap, and easy to work as steel - and I'm not making any of those claims, because they're stupid.

The only reason I started talking about Paris-Robaix is that there was a claim made that steel gives the most pleasant & comfortable ride that you can get on an unsuspended bike, and as far as I'm concerned, that's about as ridiculous a claim as it would be to say that carbon's cheaper. There's just so, so much more that can be done to engineer & tune the exact stiffness, bending, resonance, and vibration damping in any specified direction when you're dealing with laid-up carbon vs. any other frame material.

I like steel, I have a steel bike and it's great. But it came with a carbon fork for a reason, and similarly I went out and got a carbon seatpost for the same reason. It broke my heart, too - because I've been daydreaming about how great the bike would look with a Miche Supertype post for a loooooooong time.
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Old 09-05-09, 11:39 PM
  #75  
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Steel is real: Alessandro Ballan's Lampre-Fondital Custom Wilier

A closer look at Cervelo TestTeam's Special RS
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