Can someone help me with this SS conversion?
 

so before i knew what was what i bought a bike with vertical dropouts intending to have no problem converting it to ss. more than enough googling hours later i realize a bike with vertical dropouts is not the way to go and one with horizontals is. however i love the bike so im stuck with it.

a couple days ago i brought the bike to my lbs and asked them to convert it to ss for me. $30 later i have a shortened chain wrapped around my "magic gear". fine except that its a b*tch getting the wheel on and off because of the crazy tight chain and it bugs me that it isn't a "true" ss. well it is but only in the fact that i use the one gear. i could have bought a ss conversion kit but to my knowledge they only fit certain hubs (shimano) and mine is not one of them.

here's my question: from my position right now, these are the steps i think i need to go through to get it to true ss glory. are they correct?

(not in any exact order)
1. new ss hub with freewheel cog (does this mean i have to redish my rim?)
2. chain tensioner
3. longer chain to accept the chain tensioner
4. if i can't redish the rim do i need a whole new rim with the new hub and freewheel?

what do you guys think? i realize this is a lot of questions and consequently a lot of answers, but some direction would be awesome.

I'd go with a completely new rear wheel. I'm assuming your rear wheel currently has a freewheel-threaded hub with a freewheel cassette on it (a bunch of small cogs all on the rear hub?) and wha the bike shop did was just remove the gearing mechanism and leave it "permanent" on one gear ratio?

Either way, if you want just a standard single speed freewheel, buy a new backwheel. It will probably be cheaper and easier than buying and installing (or paying someone to install) a new hub on your existing wheel.

start with this

yep you're correct. they took off both derailleurs and just shortened the chain to go around the one gear. (wish i had known thats all they were going to do, i would have done it myself!)

thanks for that bobby, looks like i'll be getting the new wheel, cog, new chain and a chain tensioner. unfortunately going with something from white industries would be a little more pricey than what i was looking for. thanks for the heads up though. the bike is my commuter in philly and has a slightly higher chance of getting stolen so i'm trying not to spend too too much on it in case that happens (already had one stolen from me that way).

appreciate the replies.

Absolutely DO NOT do what this guy says. You need to get spacers for SS conversion of your freehub. Something like this
or this

or, best of all, this

even if it says in the description that it fits only shimano hubs, which i don't have?

what do you have then? 5/6sp suntour freewheel?

actually, we have no idea if you have a freewheel or freehub.
work from there.

I'll have to look when I get home, but I mentioned it to the guy at the LBS and he said that wouldn't work for me. Maybe I'll take some pics too.

use this as a guide: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/free-k7.html

Good: You know what freewheel cog size you need to match your chain.
Bad: You haven't told us exactly what kind of rear hub you have.

If you have a freewheel hub (which I suspect) you could remove your multi-speed freewheel, substitute a single speed freewheel of the appropriate size, space the axle and redish the wheel as needed and you'll be good-to-go.

If you have a cassette hub, take apart your cassette. Pick out the 1 cog you want to use and make spacers with some plastic pipe or whatever else is available.

I am guessing your comment is for the Amazon listed SSK-2 spacers & cog kit. Here is what the description says

What this means is that the spacers in this kit will be fine for all freehubs, only the cog, which is in addition to the spacers, will not fit deep spline freehubs. Chances are, however, that even the cog will fit your freehub. now. "Deep spline freehubs" are only a subset of the 10 speed freehubs, like some high-end Campagnolo ones or some of the Shimano Dura Ace. My money is on you not actually having a deep spline freehub. I myself have never seen a deep spline freehub in real life.
And even if it won't, it's no biggie, because you can just use the one cog that the chain is engaged in, right



Anyhow, an explanation of the "deep spline" issue is here, from Sheldon Brown himself:
Link

Excellent advice. I completely agree... do NOT do what I previously suggested if you can find a single speed conversion kit to match your existing hub.

wow awesome info. i thought i covered all his articles too. here's some pics of the freewheel and hub. the hub is kunyu and the freewheel is suntour. 5 cogs. based on the article by sheldon i can't figure out the freewheel and its four notches. would this work with the conversion kit?

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/j...an/suntour.jpg

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/j...2man/kunyu.jpg

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/j...e12man/cog.jpg

It looks like you have a threaded freewheel, which screws onto the hub and can be removed with the proper 4-prong Suntour tool. After that, you can use a standard single speed freewheel in its place. Since it is NOT a cassette freehub, none of the cassette conversion kits mentioned above will work.

You have a Suntour 5 speed freewheel (threaded) on what could be a 120 mm or more likely 126mm frame spacing and will need a 4 prong Suntour tool to remove this freewheel... the threads on the hub will take a threaded single freewheel with no issues and if you need a good tensioner just use your old deraileur (if it is sound) as there is no better tensioning device ever made.

The limiter screws on the deraileur can be used to lock in it's position.

On a 5 speed the spacing the chain line is going to come out pretty nicely if you run your chain on the middle chain ring position and will probably be nearly exact.

I would go back the shop and ask for a refund since they did nothing right.

More details about your bike are needed... don't know what the front chain rings are and what kind of gearing you are looking for... a 52:18 makes for a very smooth and long running drive and yields a gearing in the low 70 gear inch range.

Removing these old Suntour freewheels takes a little care... you want to secure the freewheel tool with the wheel nut and a washer to keep it from slipping and fragging the prongs and once the freewheel breaks loose you want to loosen that as you can damage the wheel bearings if you keep cranking on things without releasing that.

This is what I keep telling people, but on BFSSFG, it seems people insist on spending $50 on a Surly Singulator - which won't work better than a crappy, used and busted derailleur. Some people just aren't happy if they can't spend money.

This wasn't directed to the OP at all.

To the OP: the biggest problem you have is the vertical dropouts. You absolutely must have a chain tensioner, and don't let people sucker you into the magic ratio deal. Magic ratios do not actually work, in the long run. After a couple of weeks of moderate cycling the chain will elongate and get dangerously slack. With magic ratios chains get elongated quickly, because usually they are under too high tension (and that is when the magic ratio is done right - when it isn't, the chain is slack already to begin with).

By the way, now that we know you have a thread-on freewheel, you can replace it with a singlespeed one. Whatever you buy, don't get a Dicta freewheel, because it will be very hard to remove - there is no commercially available remover for them.

Last thing: don't throw that 5-speed threaded freewheel away: those are hard to come by, and you have a Suntour Alpha, which is almost as good as their Winner Pro line - rather good stuff for their vintage.

He can send me that freewheel... :)

Seriously guys I can't thank you enough for the help. Seriously awesome info and advice. The more I dig deeper into this stuff the more I realize how much I don't know yet. So great to have a site like this with members like you.

Anyways for the freewheel....since it's not a cassette and the spacer kits won't work, you're talking about a freewheel like this correct?

Obviously I've never done this before, but how does the freewheel stay in the place you want it to? I'm thinking I'll figure it out once I get there but wanted to ask first in case there was something I'm missing.

Unfortunately I left my rear derailleur at the shop but I'm going back today to talk to them about a possible refund so I'll see if they kept it around. If not I'll look into getting a cheaper tensioner. $50 for the Surly is a little steap.

Funny you said that about the chain becoming slack because I noticed last night when I was taking the wheel on and off, that the chain had become much less tight than when it came back from the shop. And that's only after a week of commuting. Couldn't imagine what it would be like in a few more.

Not sure what the gear ratio is now with the magic gear but I'm going to look more into that when I get home tonight and I'll try to post another pic of the chainring too. Whatever thwe gearing is right now it couldn't hurt for it to be a slightly higher gear, it's just a tad too low right now. It originally had 2 chainrings on it but I took the larger one off and replaced the chainring bolts with shorter ones.

You're welcome.

That is the freewheel you need, yes - and by the way, that particular one is very good, too (great quality for the money).

No tensioner will be as good as even the crappiest deraileur - because deraileurs have better bearings in the pulleys and have limit screws to adjust the chainline with much better precision AND flexibility than chain tensioner.

Yeah, the chain slacks superfast when you have the magic ratio thing. There are people that think magic ratios work - that's because they cycle maybe 2 kilometers a day - to the nearest Starbucks and back to their dorm, I guess.... Oh yeah, and the magic ratio usually forces you into a gear that you don't really like. As your second post indeed suggests.

Good job on removing one chainring and replacing the bolts. I can see that you'll get proficient in this bike mechanics stuff very fast.

The Shimano freewheel is a really good choice... they deliver some seriously good bang for the buck.

I usually base my gearing estimates for other people by using a 700:25 wheel as a base... a larger wheel and tyre size will yield a taller gearing while a smaller tyre will reduce the result.

If you are running the small ring off an old road double it is probably a 42... mate that to a 16 tooth freewheel and you will have a gearing of about 70 gear inches which I think is pretty close to ideal for all around riding. If you ran a 52:18 you would get a slightly higher gearing of about 76 gear inches which might be something for flatter terrain or stronger riders.

With ss freewheels your cog size is pretty limited so gearing adjustments need to be done at the crank by changing chain rings.

Here is one more idea... that Suntour freewheel is about as nice as they come and if you reinstall the deraileur you could run that and by adjusting the limit screws be able to make manual gear changes. In this way you could play with different gearings to see what makes you happy.

I hope so. I'm usually pretty good picking stuff like this up after I get a handle on what's going on.

Awesome about the freewheel, guess I'll be stopping by Performance on the way home then.

Have to check about the gearing too. Would 52:18 be good for city riding? Stop and goes and all that? I just ran outside to check the gearing and came back with 40:17. Sound right? It may have been 41t or 42t but I had to count quick so no one missed me. (we are talking about the teeth count correct?)

Like I said before, the ratio right now is ok, but could be a little higher. Nice torque to get going from a full stop at lights and such but the top end mellows out pretty quickly for keeping up with traffic. I'm about 6'1" and 200lbs with 27" rims.

What else would i need to get this done besides the Suntour tool? Chainwhip? If they didn't hang on to my rear derailleur maybe they'll have another old one laying around I can use.

Great idea, kind of like a try before you buy sort of thing.

Again, I know I'm asking a lot of questions but please bear with me!

No need for a chainwhip.

Yup, that's the "tuition" benefit of converting a road bike to single speed.