Look, of course clipless are going to work better, but a lot of people here use their bikes for short rides and can't be bothered to wear MTB or road shoes all the time.

The people arguing about Holdfast straps not resisting forward forces haven't used them. The straps are tapered such that when properly adjusted, you can get your foot in, but no farther. I have a pair of Holdfast straps, and I have never had an issue with my foot slipping forward through the strap or not providing enough resistance to usefully apply forward pressure. If you think Holdfast can't resist forward forces well enough to compare to cages and straps, please try a pair first before commenting. They are actually designed to resist forward forces. Whether this design is good enough for you or not is up to your own opinion, of course.

"With two areas of adjustability and a unique wedge-profile, your feet don't slide forward. "
http://holdfastordie.squarespace.com/testimonials/

That's not my testimonial, but I feel the same way.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_CFOQn7QxHP...KSholdfast.jpg

Looks like they'll fit on track pedals. I guess that'll work. BMX pedals are just so big and my BB isn't very high to begin with. I also have narrow feet/sneakers that would probably float inside Holdfast w/ BMX pedals.

Anybody use 'Power Grips', I've only used them briefly and think they are pretty good once your feet are in and allow you to easily slip out when you need to without drama or concern, I just found them a bit of a pain to get my foot in in the first place. Perhaps I need more practice with em..

They fit track pedals just fine, if you get the right track pedals. The Origin8 and All-City Standard Track Pedals are fantastic for Holdfast straps. Here are mine on a set of Origin8 Standard Track Pedals:
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=9...c99885da44e881

Power Grips are awful. The diagonal pressure band is not conducive to the forces you should be applying to the pedal throughout the circle.

Not to mention they are cheaply made despite being overpriced...

I think the biggest test is a long hard whipskid on a big gear. I snap out of clipless with these every once in a while, and sometimes a clip/strap setup will barf my foot when it's a really strong stop.

Having both clipless and clips/straps, I am going to say with 100% certainty that clips/straps are more appropriate for skids, especially if you have a tendency to whip. My Atacs feel really floaty and sketchy when you're pulling up hard, and if you pull sideways for a whip, you have to be careful they don't accidentally release. Granted I've only put ab 100 miles on this setup, I'm still much more confident with a pair of straps.

While clipless in itself is pretty mindless once you have the motion, clips/straps are definitely more secure for hard fixed riding.

Whip skids are my favorite. Nothing sillier than destroying your tires carving down asphalt hills like a snowboard.

Same here, I'm also new to them. I've been using them for a few weeks now and indeed, the stepping in takes some getting used to. Just don't tighten the straps too much, and practise getting in and out every now and then, and you'll soon be a smooth 'stepper-in'. :)

As a postman I have to get on and off my bike a lot, which got me used to the straps quickly. I doubt I'll ever be able to step in without looking though; it's too 'complex' a move with the straps facing down.

Btw I had a small accident a few days ago, I bumped into a car with my bike, but when it happened I could free my feet from the straps quite easily (I rather flew out of them; might've actually had something to do with the rapid stop ^^') so I came out unhurt.

I agree on the overpriced part. Can't judge the durability aspect of these things but I once read that some people have used them for many years without too much wear.

And the diagonal strap placement, does it really have a significant influence on power output / efficiency?

anyone else have this experience? i can skip, whip and regular skid, and i've found whip skids to be the fastest way to stop. though the dude at the lbs assures me you're not actually putting twisting pressure on your foot in a whip, i find that hard to believe. Yo! -- when you've pulled out, what's happened? do you wreck or what?

Here are my powergrips.
[TIMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/xavier853/Halo/0417001448a.jpg[/TIMG]
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...0417001448.jpg

I don't really like them. I never knew hold fast grips worked on track pedals. I also dislike BMX pedals. I will give HF a try on my new bike.

i cant remember the name but someone posted links to a known and good BMX company that started making FG/SS parts....and one of them was a BMX style peddle, BUT it was slimmed down and decreased in width, so essentially it was a BMX style peddle but the same size/width as a track peddle.

and about the hold fasts, obviously that pic shows they do work on track peddles, and just for extra confirmation before seeing this pic i emailed holdfast and they said they do in fact work on most standard track peddles, such as the run o the mill orign8s, but are obviously better suited for the BMX style peddles.

i bought a pair and are on their way....

i know allot of clip/strap enthusiasts think these holdfast type foot retention are inferior, but i would think they would be better because there is more surface area over where the foot contacts the peddle the most....im sure someone will argue that point lol but whatever, to each their own.

I've been riding BMX pedals (Odyssey Twisteds) and Hold Fasts now for at least 6 months now and am fully converted. Previously, I had ridden MKS track pedals and clips/straps with no problems, but that was due to not knowing how good something new could actually be. I do feel a bit Fred-ish at times since I'm not riding FFG, but then I remember how damn good it feels and forget about the haters (suck my balls). Recently, I picked up a set of MKS GR-9s on sale and thought I would go back... only lasted 1 day on them (using clips and doubles). To quote a friend on the metal clips, who also tried to go back recently, "It felt like they were made out of knives." Maybe if you're riding around in a fresh pair of wingtips, but most of us are wearing soft shoes. If you haven't tried this set-up, you don't know what you're missing. I usually only ride fast and longer rides. These things rule whether spinning at full cadence down a steep hill, climbing that hill out of the saddle, or just cruising around the flats. (We already know how good they are for FFG.) I'm telling you, these are NOT just for tricks. I shot a few pictures for you. You can see that they are designed to keep your foot from going past a certain point. They really don't have any issues. I did take me a few weeks to break them in and get used to the different feel of the pedals. I would like to know more about this company making slimmed down BMX style pedals. That could be interesting.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4039/...7bf74786_o.jpg

I think these may be them. Look like they might be another good choice for Hold Fast straps.

SNAFU "Anorexic" Pedals.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/snafubm...99062/sizes/o/

do they recommend BMX pedals bc of the pins?

you can cut the pins off if you don't want them. if you look in the photos, you can see I cut off two of the back pins. You don't need them at all, but I like the grip

actually it looks like, at least on those "anorexic" pedals you mentioned above, the pins screw in/out, which would great bc you could remove them from the side w/o the straps so you don't risk cutting up your legs.

i'm actually looking at going with a setup of the snafu anorexic + hold fasts for my creamroller. anyone else have experience with these?

MKS Touring Lites, MKS steel clips, nice single leather straps. Anything else would be uncivilized.

What would you guys recommend for a weight weenie?

& something under 80$

Clipless.

One thing that some don't know:

Ever notice that vertical plate at the back of old school track and road pedals?

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...pedals1of2.jpg
http://www.irocycle.com/ProductImage...sylvan_kit.jpg

A slotted cleat is supposed to fit right on top of that plate.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3566/...b015ab.jpg?v=0

That cleat was nailed or screwed to the bottom of shoes. This system prevented the forward or backward movement of the foot. The leather strap(s) prevented the vertical movement of the foot.

Toe clips and straps were designed to be cinched and un-cinched several times during a ride. Literally, every time you put your foot in you are supposed to cinch it tightly, then every time you stop, you reach down, open the quick-release and loosen the strap and take your foot out. Now you can see how clipless pedals were a significant improvement over this process.

The purpose of toe clip isn't to keep the foot from sliding forward. That's what the cleat does. It's purpose is to hold the leather straps open to allow the foot to enter them because once the leather straps are broken-in they become floppy and it's hard to get the foot in.

Here I go... possibly about to make a fool of myself again... I understand cinching the straps down on a track. Maybe. Dunno bc I've never done it. But in traffic? Every time you come to a light (if you can't track stand) you're gonna loosen one, then the light turns, you're gonna put your foot back in and cinch it again? I guess you could get good at timing it, but seems to me like in the meantime you're missing it, not paying attention to the road, maybe veering into traffic... seems dangerous. I've got mine pretty tight, and it's a ***** to get into sometimes, but it does the trick. Errr... enough until I save some money and get a good answer on the likelihood of pulling out of clipless on a whip skid (see my earlier post).

Further,

NOT cinching the strap down tightly means that a rider, when on the upstroke (the 5 o'clock through the 10 o'clock positions of the pedal stroke.), will have to use the tibialis anterior muscle (on the outside of your shin) to lift up the front of the foot to stay in the straps. Or not pull up on the upstroke at all and simply mash with the glutes and quads through the 1 o'clock through 5 o'clock positions. Either way, there is no support of the foot during the pull across the bottom of the pedal stroke as the shoe will simply slide backwards out of the strap.

If you were in the straps tightly, you can use the much stronger hamstrings (back of your upper leg) to improve the output of your pedal stroke during the 5 o'clock through the 10 o'clock positions of the pedal stroke.


In short, if you are not using the straps properly, you aren't getting the most out of your pedal stroke. This is why when people go to clipless they are amazed at how efficient it is. It's because they get to use their powerful hamstrings during the pull-through and upstroke. Clip & Strap riders could have the same experiences if they use the proper shoes with the old school cleat and tightened them down.

NOW you see why clipless pedals became the norm and toe clips faded away from popular use.

But... but... what about the whip skidzzzzzz? Seriously! Am I going to pull out? Seems likely -- there's a lot of body/foot English going on there. And if you do pull out? Seems like there'd be some blood pretty soon after.

if you're sloppy with your feet, use cheap pedals (I've yanked my feet from Forte mtb pedals) or have worn out cleats.

Seriously, man. Skidding for show has gotten old. Let it go.

Ride your bike. Get fast, get strong. If you want to go faster (safely), get a bike with brakes or go to the track. Want to go balls-out, get a BMX or do some sort of MTBing.

true. and i've got brakes and don't see myself taking them off. but it's not for show -- i can stop way faster when i whip than when i skip or just regular skid. oh wait... i've got a brake. ok it's for show.

show, sure... or just fun for yourself... nothing wrong with having fun

WTF is skidding for show? i used double strapped metal old school toeclips and having ridden clippless as well as long as the are in good order and not worn they wont disengage unless you want em to. and really it was easier on my feet as a messenger to not have to walk on those cleats everwhere. i have broken a cleat ofthe shoe twisting it sideways but they were worn out. he's right about the old shcool cleats for toeclips but they would not stand up to walking in all day. you should either get decent clipless or double strap the toeclip(preferably metal) and tighten them up. where a shoe with little resistance on the top of your foot so they fit snug in the pedals but slide out easy like an addidas samba or other simmilar sneaker.