One thing that some don't know:

Ever notice that vertical plate at the back of old school track and road pedals?

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...pedals1of2.jpg
http://www.irocycle.com/ProductImage...sylvan_kit.jpg

A slotted cleat is supposed to fit right on top of that plate.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3566/...b015ab.jpg?v=0

That cleat was nailed or screwed to the bottom of shoes. This system prevented the forward or backward movement of the foot. The leather strap(s) prevented the vertical movement of the foot.

Toe clips and straps were designed to be cinched and un-cinched several times during a ride. Literally, every time you put your foot in you are supposed to cinch it tightly, then every time you stop, you reach down, open the quick-release and loosen the strap and take your foot out. Now you can see how clipless pedals were a significant improvement over this process.

The purpose of toe clip isn't to keep the foot from sliding forward. That's what the cleat does. It's purpose is to hold the leather straps open to allow the foot to enter them because once the leather straps are broken-in they become floppy and it's hard to get the foot in.

Here I go... possibly about to make a fool of myself again... I understand cinching the straps down on a track. Maybe. Dunno bc I've never done it. But in traffic? Every time you come to a light (if you can't track stand) you're gonna loosen one, then the light turns, you're gonna put your foot back in and cinch it again? I guess you could get good at timing it, but seems to me like in the meantime you're missing it, not paying attention to the road, maybe veering into traffic... seems dangerous. I've got mine pretty tight, and it's a ***** to get into sometimes, but it does the trick. Errr... enough until I save some money and get a good answer on the likelihood of pulling out of clipless on a whip skid (see my earlier post).

Further,

NOT cinching the strap down tightly means that a rider, when on the upstroke (the 5 o'clock through the 10 o'clock positions of the pedal stroke.), will have to use the tibialis anterior muscle (on the outside of your shin) to lift up the front of the foot to stay in the straps. Or not pull up on the upstroke at all and simply mash with the glutes and quads through the 1 o'clock through 5 o'clock positions. Either way, there is no support of the foot during the pull across the bottom of the pedal stroke as the shoe will simply slide backwards out of the strap.

If you were in the straps tightly, you can use the much stronger hamstrings (back of your upper leg) to improve the output of your pedal stroke during the 5 o'clock through the 10 o'clock positions of the pedal stroke.


In short, if you are not using the straps properly, you aren't getting the most out of your pedal stroke. This is why when people go to clipless they are amazed at how efficient it is. It's because they get to use their powerful hamstrings during the pull-through and upstroke. Clip & Strap riders could have the same experiences if they use the proper shoes with the old school cleat and tightened them down.

NOW you see why clipless pedals became the norm and toe clips faded away from popular use.

But... but... what about the whip skidzzzzzz? Seriously! Am I going to pull out? Seems likely -- there's a lot of body/foot English going on there. And if you do pull out? Seems like there'd be some blood pretty soon after.

if you're sloppy with your feet, use cheap pedals (I've yanked my feet from Forte mtb pedals) or have worn out cleats.

Seriously, man. Skidding for show has gotten old. Let it go.

Ride your bike. Get fast, get strong. If you want to go faster (safely), get a bike with brakes or go to the track. Want to go balls-out, get a BMX or do some sort of MTBing.

true. and i've got brakes and don't see myself taking them off. but it's not for show -- i can stop way faster when i whip than when i skip or just regular skid. oh wait... i've got a brake. ok it's for show.

show, sure... or just fun for yourself... nothing wrong with having fun

WTF is skidding for show? i used double strapped metal old school toeclips and having ridden clippless as well as long as the are in good order and not worn they wont disengage unless you want em to. and really it was easier on my feet as a messenger to not have to walk on those cleats everwhere. i have broken a cleat ofthe shoe twisting it sideways but they were worn out. he's right about the old shcool cleats for toeclips but they would not stand up to walking in all day. you should either get decent clipless or double strap the toeclip(preferably metal) and tighten them up. where a shoe with little resistance on the top of your foot so they fit snug in the pedals but slide out easy like an addidas samba or other simmilar sneaker.

Calm down, man.

There is skidding to stop and skidding to show off. I'm referring to skidding to show off.

I have powergrips and I love them. I can get in and out of them very easily, and they feel much more secure than my previous cages/straps (two different sets, one set being Shimano 105). I feel they are much more comfortable on my feet, and resistance is never a problem with them. I have had them about a year and I have not noticed any significant wear. Sure, clips/straps make your bike look more pretty or "tarck", but I prefer function over fashion, especially when it comes to something as important as foot retention.

Power Grips are neither form nor function, IMO. The diagonal pressure band doesn't let you optimize in any direction. If you're going to use just a strap, I would much more recommend ones that are parallel to the pedal, such as Holdfast or all the other ones out there like that.

Also, @Carleton, there is also skidding for fun... it doesn't have to be just for showing off or slowing down.

yeah why would somebody do that. anybody can skid a bike. how bout backwards figure 8's while drinking coffee then you can show off.

ive never heard of that. always just did it to stop now if you jump off the front of you bike and grab it thats showing off lol

I think most people, including myself, would agree that PowerGrips are not fashionable. However, they work flawlessly for function IMO. However, I do not do skids. I use them for normal everyday riding. I think the thing that sold me on them is the comfort level. Maybe it is the shoes I wear when I ride, but the cages/clips tend to make my toes sore after awhile. However, the PowerGrips sit at a location high enough on my foot to avoid this soreness. I understand this is all personal preference and is very different depending on the person, just giving my 2 cents.

i have never used brakes so i have to have soemthing better than those powergrips. im used to a real postive connection to my pedals either tight toeclips or clipless i think id rip those apart trying to stop or slide out of em. i guess they would be fine if you use a brake. i have to skid or wheel hop to stop. just ive never heard of it impressing anyone.

$90+ ouch. I wish they made them in a cheap Poly Carb version.

Lemme see what I have here... I should point out that I am a pedal ***** and have no tolerance for crap pedals... ride on decent pedals and you will never settle for less.

Suntour Superbe pedals and Christophe clips and straps... these are friggin' amazing pedals... arguably the best pedals ever made and I have yet to find another pedal that is this smooth and mine live on my vintage Cooper race bike. These pedals will make you faster because they are that damn smooth.

Suntour XC Pro pedals with plastic clips and synthetic straps... these pedals are the nearly identical off road version of the Superbe pedals and are just as smooth... I use these on my touring bike and the synthetic materials are good for a lot of wet riding.

http://www.speedplay.com/pedalmuseum...s/IMG_8724.jpg

MKS SQuartz road pedals with MKS clips and MKS leather straps... seems to be an uncommon MKS pedal but they are really smooth and have been bulletproof over 10's of thousands of km.

http://www.speedplay.com/pedalmuseum/images/MKS.jpg

MKS Sylvan pedals with Christophe clips matching leather straps... you can't kill these pedals and one can ride on these all day.

XT mtb pedals with plastic clips and synthetic straps (winter bike)... have broken a few plastic clips but think the -40C weather was more than what they were designed for. The pedals look like ass but are still buttery smooth after 4 winters and a few rebuilds and are pretty legendary when it comes to longevity and toughness.

http://www.speedplay.com/pedalmuseum...701_resize.jpg

Shimano 600 pedals with Shimano (steel) clips and synthetic straps... I would avoid any old Shimano pedal that does not have steel clips as their synthetic clips are an accident waiting to happen as they fail catastrophically and are impossible to replace.

Lyotard pedals with Christophe clips and matching leather straps... these are over 50 years old and still as smooth as buttah but you aren't going to find these at your LBS and folks who have them won;t part with them easily.

I also have some uncommon MKS 1000 half step pedals that will be getting clips and straps... the traction on these is astounding and they are almost as smooth as my Suntours... like all MKS pedals they need to be pre-serviced to really make them run well.

I have a few nameless English made track and road pedals that are of good quality and are all re-buildable and again, use Christophe clips and matching straps as these have been serving me well for what will soon be three decades of serious riding.

I cannot see the benefit of running doubles except that it impresses those who don't know better... the best racers of all time used single clips and straps (with cleats) and could lay down more power than any of us could dream of.

For road riding, messenger work, and a great deal of utilitarian cycling singles have served me just fine and I have even used clips and straps on my mtb (Deore pedals) for off road riding.

Campagnolo Record pedals are legendary and expensive... they are probably the most copied pedal design of all time and rightfully so as their build quality is second to none. I am currently without a set of these but have some coming... I keep selling them off to fund other pedal purchases. :D

There are some nice Campy copies out there... SR actually made a great copy that is heavier but the build quality is very good and they are also re-buildable and very smooth.

I also acquired some Spanish made Zeus pedals and these are every bit as good as the Campy Record they copy and perhaps even better... they need to be polished up and need to have their bearing re-packed but damn they are smooth... and light.

I also have some Schwinn approved rubber block pedals that I am going to fit straps to for a retro build... in the old days they screwed leather straps to block pedals and made what was basically an early power grip.

What a great post. I wish I could save it.

I will turn this into a pedal porn thread before I am done.

Seems like when people ask about pedals the answers are pretty limited with most people suggesting MKS pedals when there is a world of choices out there if you are willing to look.

The SR pedals I mentioned are Sakae Ringyo... these were very popular pedals in the 80's and tend to be a very well made Campy Record copies.

I have some SP 100 AL pedals here and they are very pretty, really smooth, and very solid.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3461/...593af8.jpg?v=0

Some vintage pedals will not set you back much money whereas there are a few vintage pedals that could set you back a lot of beer money.

TA pedals are considered to be some of the finest pedals ever made and the first year model (1949) pedals will set you back thousands of dollars and are considered the holy grail of pedals...

http://www.blackbirdsf.org/ta/images/ref4690.p1.jpg

I want some of these... when they were available they would set you back about $200.00.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_C1XrRVl3W8...ls%2Bsmall.gif

I thought the same thing until I started riding fixed gear and enjoyed skidding for my own pleasure. My Christophe leather straps very quickly began be be chewed through, and my synthetic felt uncomfortable with full upward force. Using double straps helped more evenly apply the pressure across my foot and gave the leather a longer life distributed across two straps.

Doubles are not really advantageous for going swiftly forward, but when you want to fully resist momentum with a hard pull upwards, the doubles are a great advantage. Additionally, they are a bit more comfortable, so even just going forward they may appeal on a personal level.

Otherwise, I totally agree with you.

On another note, which pedals are these?

http://wiihacks.pbworks.com/f/pedals.jpg

I could see myself lusting after a pair...

Probably the best Pedal Collection around: http://www.speedplay.com/index.cfm?f...almuseum.intro

MKS/AC On my commuter:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4072/...cfb840e7_b.jpg

{sigh}