Why Oh Why?!
05-08-10, 11:41 AM
#51
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05-08-10, 11:52 AM
#52
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wow so many posts... ok so, I'm getting a special treat to be able to order some stuff wholesale... Mostly I am gathering parts for 2 wheel sets... 1 is a track set that will see road too (but not a ton) and the other is a polo/busting around set... So as I look in the catalog alls I see is 32h... Even the velocity chukkers are only offered in 32h (this is not a super big distributer mind you). Its just sort of frustrating to see when you have always ridden/ been told 36h is the way to go considering your size... I dont know where I am going with this, I just got off work...
Ben's has a few options for 36h Chukkers, and they're in stock. They also stock some in 48h.
You can even get 36h Aerhoeads if you really want to.
I think you just need a better distributor, or to contact them to see if they can order the rims you want. Alternatively, you could get the hubs, spokes, and nipples from them at wholesale and order the rims retail from somewhere else. But you do have lots of 36h options, and even some in 48h.
05-08-10, 12:04 PM
#53
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05-08-10, 12:04 PM
#54
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Also, regarding our little standing-vs.-hanging argument, the guys in this thread already put way more effort than I, at least, am going to, and with much greater ability.
That's probably what I'd be like fighting with normal shoes on, too.
That's probably what I'd be like fighting with normal shoes on, too.
05-08-10, 12:06 PM
#55
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- the weight of the rider and
- the tensile stress the wheelbuilder (or machine) that put "built in" each spoke, during building.
05-08-10, 12:38 PM
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I think this is the most interesting discussion I have had on here for a long time.
I am going to get my nerd on and read up more on this.
You guys got any links to any whitepapers on how the load forces in a spoked wheel are transmitted to the ground?
I am going to get my nerd on and read up more on this.
You guys got any links to any whitepapers on how the load forces in a spoked wheel are transmitted to the ground?
Last edited by the_don; 05-08-10 at 12:47 PM.
05-08-10, 12:59 PM
#57
Your cog is slipping.
And to think that all the OP wanted to know was where to buy a 36 spoke wheelset...
05-08-10, 01:04 PM
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doesn't he know how to use a search engine? sheesh.
And for the record, Mavic 823 rims laced to Hadley hubs are the strongest MTB wheelset you can get.
And for the record, Mavic 823 rims laced to Hadley hubs are the strongest MTB wheelset you can get.
05-08-10, 01:58 PM
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The question is, does the compressive stress completely compensate the tensile stress "built in" during the wheel manufacture? I realize that this is a practical question, because it depends on
- the weight of the rider and
- the tensile stress the wheelbuilder (or machine) that put "built in" each spoke, during building.
- the weight of the rider and
- the tensile stress the wheelbuilder (or machine) that put "built in" each spoke, during building.
When a spoke loses too much of its tension its into the zone where failures happen. Too little pressure on the nipple threads mean they can unscrew themselves if there was some residual twist in the spoke or they can turn themselves from vibration. Low tension at the bottom means you lose the lateral forces that stabilize the rim at that point (I think) so you can taco the wheel, and there are fatigue issues associated with spokes that go slack, as well as ones that are too tight
05-08-10, 03:54 PM
#61
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05-08-10, 06:27 PM
#62
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When a spoke loses too much of its tension its into the zone where failures happen. Too little pressure on the nipple threads mean they can unscrew themselves if there was some residual twist in the spoke or they can turn themselves from vibration. Low tension at the bottom means you lose the lateral forces that stabilize the rim at that point (I think) so you can taco the wheel, and there are fatigue issues associated with spokes that go slack, as well as ones that are too tight
Sending PM.
05-08-10, 07:21 PM
#63
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how does a simple thread turn into this... ---->
05-08-10, 10:24 PM
#65
Your cog is slipping.
Or maybe this:
05-08-10, 10:50 PM
#67
Your cog is slipping.
or this:
05-09-10, 02:31 AM
#70
Senior Member
When you read Sheldon Brown, you have to consider his age and his retro-perspective. Spokes and rims are much better now than they used to be. 36 spoke wheels, though still available, are basically unnecessary for most people. In fact, it sort of rediculous that most SSFG hubs and wheelsets have so many spokes. Given the high flange hubs, deep profile rims and the lack of dish the characterize many track wheels, most people could get away with 20-28 spoke wheels with no problem. There are some advantages to having fewer spokes, but the problem with fewer spokes is that you need a better build. With 32-36 spokes you have enough redundancy that the wheel is robust to uneven and improper tension levels. This is why so many low-end wheelsets have 32 or more spokes...the factories can cheap out on building it properly with less risk of the wheel failing. When you get into fewer spokes, the wheel will only be strong, stiff, and resilient when it is built with care and attention. A 20-28 spoke wheel that is well-built with quality DB spokes is going to be stronger and stay true longer than a poorly built 36 spoke wheel with ****ty SG spokes.
05-09-10, 08:00 AM
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That's why I am split between getting a low spoke count custom wheelset built up or getting an errorspoke for the front. The arrospock wil cost more and look cooler (personally speaking) but using a carbon deep rim from HK built up low spoke count with nice custom rims will cost the same, but be much lighter and probably more aero too.
But still i don't get the argument that spokes take the weight on the bottom spokes. they are pre tensioned so that they will not stretch anymore. And when a wheel is properly tensioned, the hub hangs from the top of the rim by the none stretching top spokes. The rim is held up in shape by the rest of the spokes forcing the rim into it's circular shape.
This is how RevX wheels keep their strength. And why the early gen wheels lost it because the hub spacers gave out and allowed the spoked to loose their tension and thus the wheel integrity.
BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUYAHHHHHHHHHH!
But still i don't get the argument that spokes take the weight on the bottom spokes. they are pre tensioned so that they will not stretch anymore. And when a wheel is properly tensioned, the hub hangs from the top of the rim by the none stretching top spokes. The rim is held up in shape by the rest of the spokes forcing the rim into it's circular shape.
This is how RevX wheels keep their strength. And why the early gen wheels lost it because the hub spacers gave out and allowed the spoked to loose their tension and thus the wheel integrity.
BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUYAHHHHHHHHHH!
05-11-10, 04:20 AM
#72
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05-11-10, 10:37 AM
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I'm obviously missing something here.
I think of compression as two forces pushing against one another. Assuming the bottom spokes hold up the bike by compression, what do they push against?
The top part is easy - the elbow of the spoke could push against it's resting place in the hub. At the bottom, however, there's nothing to push down against. The spoke ends in a nipple that rests in a hole in the rim and can resist tension but not compression forces. How could that hold anything up?
I think of compression as two forces pushing against one another. Assuming the bottom spokes hold up the bike by compression, what do they push against?
The top part is easy - the elbow of the spoke could push against it's resting place in the hub. At the bottom, however, there's nothing to push down against. The spoke ends in a nipple that rests in a hole in the rim and can resist tension but not compression forces. How could that hold anything up?
05-11-10, 01:26 PM
#74
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I'm obviously missing something here.
I think of compression as two forces pushing against one another. Assuming the bottom spokes hold up the bike by compression, what do they push against?
The top part is easy - the elbow of the spoke could push against it's resting place in the hub. At the bottom, however, there's nothing to push down against. The spoke ends in a nipple that rests in a hole in the rim and can resist tension but not compression forces. How could that hold anything up?
I think of compression as two forces pushing against one another. Assuming the bottom spokes hold up the bike by compression, what do they push against?
The top part is easy - the elbow of the spoke could push against it's resting place in the hub. At the bottom, however, there's nothing to push down against. The spoke ends in a nipple that rests in a hole in the rim and can resist tension but not compression forces. How could that hold anything up?
05-11-10, 01:55 PM
#75
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Found it. https://dbox.unt.edu/wheels.pdf
BICYCLE WHEEL AS PRESTRESSED STRUCTURE. DISCUSSION AND CLOSURE
Accession Number:
00681518
Language:
English
Abstract:
A discussion of a paper with the aforementioned title by Burgoyne and Dilmaghanian, published in this journal (Volume 119, Number 3, March 1993), is presented. Discusser Papadopoulos states that the authors make several errors of history and precedence regarding prestressed wheels. The discusser also addresses structural efficiency, measurements, wheel construction, analysis, and tire behavior and bead. Discussion is followed by closure from the authors.
TRIS Files:
TRIS
Pagination:
p. 847-849
Authors:
Burgoyne, C J
Dilmaghanian, R
Discussers:
Papadopoulos, J M
Publication Date:
1995-7
Serial:
Journal of Engineering Mechanics Volume: 121
Issue Number: 7
Publisher: American Society of Civil Engineers
ISSN: 0733-9399
BICYCLE WHEEL AS PRESTRESSED STRUCTURE. DISCUSSION AND CLOSURE
Accession Number:
00681518
Language:
English
Abstract:
A discussion of a paper with the aforementioned title by Burgoyne and Dilmaghanian, published in this journal (Volume 119, Number 3, March 1993), is presented. Discusser Papadopoulos states that the authors make several errors of history and precedence regarding prestressed wheels. The discusser also addresses structural efficiency, measurements, wheel construction, analysis, and tire behavior and bead. Discussion is followed by closure from the authors.
TRIS Files:
TRIS
Pagination:
p. 847-849
Authors:
Burgoyne, C J
Dilmaghanian, R
Discussers:
Papadopoulos, J M
Publication Date:
1995-7
Serial:
Journal of Engineering Mechanics Volume: 121
Issue Number: 7
Publisher: American Society of Civil Engineers
ISSN: 0733-9399