Yeah, that's why I distributed my spoke cards evenly around the wheels. Man, those wheels spin super smoothly when I'm bombing downhill at 60mph and 300rpm.

But how do you remember whih one is the real one, clearly you have to mark it some how to identify it, which would throw off the weight distribution altogether. This is a huge problem for me, let me know if you have fully solved the problem...

I know you want some of it.

No, not confused at all. But take wheel truing. Ever have a wheel that was way off both laterally & radially ? Not only does the wheel look like it's out of round, when you spin it, it hits that lopsided point and it's even more noticeable at slower rpms. It may not even make a full revolution on the final rotation and then roll back and settle where the heaviest part is at the bottom of the wheel. In that regard truing is exactly like a car wheel that is not balanced.

Bear with me on this ? Turn your bike over, spin your front wheel. If your theory about the valve stem is true, when it stops spinning the valve stem should be oriented at the 6 o'clock position (heaviest point at the bottom, true ?). I just spun mine several times to test your theory out, not once did the valve stem end up at the 6 o'clock position. Conclusion, the valve stem isn't the part of the wheel that throws the balance off. My particular front wheel valve stem winds up at between 1 and 2 o'clock position every time, so if that wheel is imbalanced and heavier anywhere, it's at a point that is nearly 1/3 of the circumference away from the valve stem. Ideally you'd want the wheel to maintain constant weight at every point of the wheel to be perfectly balanced. Maybe mine is just a cheap wheelset ? Perhaps the more expensive ones are more balanced. And my rear wheel valve stem also winds up at between 1 & 2 o'clock positions too using the same spin test. So I figure I have a matched set ? that is at least balanced at the same point, give or take, away from the valve stem.

I'm pretty sure he was joking not theorizing over a non-existent problem.

I've done this with my road bike before and the valve stem ALWAYS winds up at the 6 o'clock on that bike. It spins till it can't go around anymore then it rocks back and forth till it settles with the valve stem on the bottom. This is with 80's Araya rims and 80's Shimano 600 hubs.

in the southern hemisphere it stops in the 12 o'clock position, and water in the toilets spin the other direction!!!!

I just did this with my road bike, a 1986 Fuji Allegro, it has the same Shimano hubs your's has (600's) only with UKAI rims and I can't get it to settle at any same exact point. Perhaps that being the case, my wheels are more balanced than yours because when the energy/inertia for the wheel to stop spinning, it's where ever it is, with virtually zero/no roll back for both wheels ?

Did it for the Mountain Bike too. late 1990's Fuji MX-200, rims are 26" HJC's and the hubs I couldn't tell. Anyway, it seemed to spin, stop and settle randomly anywhere like the road bike for both wheels.

I like that for the Fuji's, but now that the Vilano locks in where it does, I have to figure the wheel is imbalanced because it stops in the same place every time. After your post, I was expecting the same from my Fuji's that it would settle at 6 o'clock. I'm happier with a random valve stem orientation at complete rest, as they are as perfectly balanced as the naked eye can determine. Any rollback might be indicative of wheel imbalance, but perhaps the wheel is minutely untrue ?

I won't speculate at what point of the post it went virally sarcastic, but if I were I'd have to say at this point ?

Perhaps Scrodzilla can elaborate ?

Further, is it really a non existent problem ? Non-existent only because you choose to ignore it ? Over the life of a tire, many don't rotate tires, front to rear. But there are many that do rotate tires to get maximum wear and life out of their tires. I'm at that point with the knobbies on my atb/mtb. The front has noticeably more tread on them from the road riding I've done on it.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire-rotation.html

Front outlasts a rear tire as much as 3-1. Rotation only when replacing the rear ? Rotating them would coincide front and rear replacement by distributing the wear. That's a choice too, But let's say you are anal retentive and do hub maintenance, repack bearings and so on once a year. Is it a big deal to rotate the tires too ?

IMO if a wheel spends true and you aren't an idiot and have a lead weight attached to it then the weight distribution problem is negligible. If you are really that irate about the tire being absolutely perfectly balanced and weight distributed evenly across then it sounds to me like you are slow and are just coming up with excuses to blame that on instead of Hurrying the ef up. That''s my speculation at least.

This thread has been so hijacked. I agree with Crocker here, I highly doubt you would actually notice the difference in your ride.

Since we were on the subject of "*******s" and "Masi" I thought this would be the perfect opportunity to insert another photo of my bike.

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/q...n/DSC02515.jpg

Fits like a snug leather glove. I love riding this bike! The smoke in the air is from the surrounding forest fires.

How ironic, individuals that pride themselves on being able to afford the finest bicycle equipment, manufactured to the tightest tolerances with the latest technology, discounting perfection in their wheelset that they went out of their way to spend hundreds more for ? Not to mention priding themselves on the tuning of their equipment ? And I'm implied as the idiot ? I'll let you chew on that for a while ? I mean these manufacturers spend millions refining thru R&D the materials and processes to build a better bike at every price point ? At this point I'm inclined to believe your opinion is by and large irrelevant and immaterial ? Discussing this any further with you is pointless. Have a nice day.

Nice Masi. FTW

Wait so you actually have a lead weight attached to your wheel????

I disagree with that, there is a noticeable difference between the Fuji's I have and the Vilano. On your car, take the steel weights off the rims and unbalance those wheels. Then take it for a spin and listen for noise, feel for vibrations & the way the tire behaves in it's road manners. Same goes for a bike. If you can feel it at lower speeds say about 20-30 mph for a car, that's pretty much a higher speed for a bike. About the best I could tell you to compare with a car, take the same set of tires and fail tom rotate them and let them get worn unevenly. A few months back I put a set of tires on the car, made sure it was aligned and balanced, the car drove like it was brand new. Still don't think anyone would know the difference ?

Can we get back to the topic here... my reflectors

dude, you're comparing apples and oranges in every case.

the fuji bike ride differently than your vilano for many reasons, most likely that they're completely different frames and (id assume) with some different components, too.

cars wheels are different than bike wheels for many reasons: they're heavier, the weights are heavier, and they spin at higher RPMs (for two reasons: one, cars just go faster, and two, a smaller diameter wheel means that they will be spinning faster to maintain the same speed as a bike). cars have suspension systems, where as most bikes do not. so on. so forth.

the only way to draw an actual comparison is to ride with reflectors on, and then ride with reflectors off. on the same frame. with otherwise identical components.
until you do that, speculation is pretty much worthless. especially speculation comparing the mechanics of a car to a bike.

No, a lead weight is one school of thought for balancing and it's what the automotive industry has come up with as a solution. But let's think outside the box for a moment ? What if the imbalance in weight is attributable to an excessive weld that could be refined and filed or sanded down inside the rim that is not visible to the naked eye as a complete wheel with tire ? That would accomplish the desired result while reducing weight minutely wouldn't it ? So I may feel so inclined as to remove everything down to the rim to determine whether it's the actual wheel itself or a defective tire with more rubber in one spot or whatever else might be causing the imbalance ? I've already determined it's not the valve stem. You do realize that not all the steel tubing of a bike is exactly the same thickness ? You do realize a rim is nothing more than half a pipe that has been welded ? Does it bother me, can I tell the difference ? Well compared to the 2 Fuji's the answer is "Yes" to both questions, I want to know why and rectify the issue so that I don't feel any inconsistency in the way even an inexpensive bike rolls. The higher end one's somebody has already sweat those details.

What you are feeling on the bicycle is the cheap out of round tires and rough hub bearings. Manufacturers do not "balance" bicycle wheels, they simply make them as round and uniform as possible. When I replaced the cheap stock tires on my two steel BD bikes with much higher quality tires, the ride became noticeably smoother. There is a lot of vibration coming from the cheap hubs on my Moto Messenger that does not occur with the much smoother hubs on my Kilo WT. But if it floats your boat, waste all your time balancing the cheap wheels on your Vilano and maybe there will be a placebo effect and you'll imagine that there's been a noticeable improvement.

Holy crap. I was kidding.

The reason a car wheel uses weights is because relative to the hp & weight, a few grams or ounces of lead at key spots makes virtually little difference in top end speed. How much difference does a bag of groceries make with a car vs a bike ? On a bike a pound makes a difference because the hp a man produces is miniscule compared to that of a 300 hp engine. I am not comparing apples & oranges when 3 bikes are turned upside down and each has it's wheels spun. What is that ? A hub, a rim, spokes, a rim liner, a tube and a tire spinning on an axle. All wheels are true, yet one wheelset is not balanced. That has nothing to do with frame, pedals, bottom bracket, chain, seat, headset, neck, brake components, handlebars, grips and so on.

At least the newbie understands what is important here.