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Radial vs. 1x vs. etc lacing

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Radial vs. 1x vs. etc lacing

Old 09-26-10, 04:18 PM
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Radial vs. 1x vs. etc lacing

Whats differenece between radial laced and 1x laced wheels?

I mean I know the difference in how it looks. THATS pretty obvious. But as to the applications of each, advantages and subsequent disadvantages of each, im ignorant.

Please help. This thread came off a remark by Tejano made on the macaframa + Raleigh collab about lacing.. (AND xkillermax)
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Old 09-26-10, 04:58 PM
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From my experience, the most noticeable differences are strength and durability. working at a shop I have seen problems with straight pull lacing.

How many spokes you are using will also be a factor. Don't necessarily need 36, but for a rider I wouldnt go super low.

Radial lacing looks cool? someone may say something about drag?
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Old 09-26-10, 05:31 PM
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Radial lacing (no lacing) is fine for the front wheel, because there is no torque being applied at the hub that has to be transferred to the rim, unless you are using a disk brake. Torque transfer requires that the spoke have a force component tangential to the hub flange, and the more crosses that you have in the spokes, the more tangential component you will have. Also, high flange hubs will provide more tangential component for a given number of crosses, spokes and rim depth. Some fancy rear wheels are laced 2x or 3x on the right (drive) side, but radial on the left side, because most of the torque transfer occurs on the right side. All my track wheels are either 2x or 3x on both sides on the rear, but most are radial in front. Also, all my modern road racing and training wheels are radial in the front, and I've never had any problems.
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Old 09-26-10, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by gt35built View Post
From my experience, the most noticeable differences are strength and durability. working at a shop I have seen problems with straight pull lacing.?
Are you talking about radial (zero cross) lacing or straight pull type spokes (no hook)? Spokes carry all the load in tension, regardless of the lacing pattern.
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Old 09-26-10, 05:54 PM
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What TTrackie said.

Radial laced wheels are marginally lighter and more aero. More importantly, they are laterally stiffer because the spoke is shorter and approaches the hub at a sharper angle with respect the median plane of the bicycle. The only downside to radial lacing (for the front wheel) is that it puts more tension on the hub flanges. However hub breakage almost never happens and most hubs these days are built to withstand radial lacing. The only real reason to cross spokes is to handle torque loads...there are none on the front wheel.
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Old 09-26-10, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by gt35built View Post
Don't necessarily need 36, but for a rider I wouldnt go super low.
I wouldn't radially lace a wheel with more than 32 spokes unless the hub was really beefy...all those spokes add up to a lot of tension on the flanges. Then again, almost no one really needs 36 spokes on the front. A radially laced 36 spoke wheel would probably be fine, but I would feel better with crossed spokes on a high spoke count wheel, unless of course, the hub was specifically built for it.
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Old 09-26-10, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by TejanoTrackie View Post
Are you talking about radial (zero cross) lacing or straight pull type spokes (no hook)? Spokes carry all the load in tension, regardless of the lacing pattern.
Hook type spoke with zero cross. Although some of the problems related to either the rim/hub also.
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Old 09-26-10, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by mihlbach View Post
I wouldn't radially lace a wheel with more than 32 spokes unless the hub was really beefy...all those spokes add up to a lot of tension on the flanges. Then again, almost no one really needs 36 spokes on the front. A radially laced 36 spoke wheel would probably be fine, but I would feel better with crossed spokes on a high spoke count wheel, unless of course, the hub was specifically built for it.
Was talking about cross lacing.
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Old 09-27-10, 02:41 AM
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whats your guyes opinion on lacing a single fixed phil rear hub with 32 spokes to a open pro -------> left side radial drive side 3cross. i was wondering if i notice a moving of the rim to the right when accelerating/braking.
while i write this it seems like a bad idea but seems to hold on some road wheels -> is that because the drive side spokes are steeper and les likely to move the rim sideways?
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Old 09-27-10, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by PHR3AK View Post
whats your guyes opinion on lacing a single fixed phil rear hub with 32 spokes to a open pro -------> left side radial drive side 3cross.
Don't do that. Road rear wheels have assymetrical spoke tensions because the wheel is dished to accomodate the cassette. The asymmetrical lacing patterns you see on some road wheels are meant to partially compensate for assymeterical tension. There is no benefit to radially lacing the left rear spokes on a FG/SS.
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Old 09-27-10, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by PHR3AK View Post
whats your guyes opinion on lacing a single fixed phil rear hub with 32 spokes to a open pro -------> left side radial drive side 3cross. i was wondering if i notice a moving of the rim to the right when accelerating/braking.
while i write this it seems like a bad idea but seems to hold on some road wheels -> is that because the drive side spokes are steeper and les likely to move the rim sideways?
Rim may move, but I'd be more worried about tearing off the flange, which will probably happen at the worst possible time.

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Old 09-27-10, 10:50 AM
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i'm convinced not to do it, thanks guys
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Old 09-27-10, 01:59 PM
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Half-radial isn't really a good idea for torque transfer...that's like the Ford Model-T technology that was in question when all of the wheels came back to the shop half-dished...
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Old 09-27-10, 04:08 PM
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What exactly is the appeal of radial lacing on wheels ridden on roads (as opposed to velodrome)?
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Old 09-27-10, 04:39 PM
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spoke crossing

Originally Posted by PHR3AK View Post
whats your guyes opinion on lacing a single fixed phil rear hub with 32 spokes to a open pro ------->
use 14/15 spokes on DS and 14/17 spokes on NDS

3X both or, 3X DS and 2X NDS.
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Old 09-27-10, 11:26 PM
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I see. Looks like im not radial lacing anything. even front wheels!
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Old 09-29-10, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
What exactly is the appeal of radial lacing on wheels ridden on roads (as opposed to velodrome)?
Easier to lace while drunk?
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Old 09-29-10, 05:10 PM
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I think radially laced wheels look nice, I would just be afraid of popping a spoke while commuting in an urban environment everyday
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Old 09-29-10, 05:15 PM
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I'm still riding a radial-laced mtb wheel I built in 1990. It's held up pretty well so far.
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Old 09-29-10, 06:50 PM
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did you know that 1x on a 16h and 2x on a 32h produce the same spoke length, provided that the rim and hub have the same dimensions.

1x only works properly with some rim and hub combinations, and it's more of a functional reason than anything else. Mainly for low spoke count, small wheels or large flange and deep section rim combinations.
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Old 09-29-10, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by hpmcardle View Post
Half-radial isn't really a good idea for torque transfer...that's like the Ford Model-T technology that was in question when all of the wheels came back to the shop half-dished...
Mavic seems to disagree(see their CrossMax wheels,DS radial)
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Old 09-29-10, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ATXSS View Post
I think radially laced wheels look nice, I would just be afraid of popping a spoke while commuting in an urban environment everyday
Don't be. Radial laced wheels rarely break. One picture posted on the internet of a hub failure is not equivalent to real data on the matter. It is just as easy to find pictures or other anecdotal evidence of wheel failures with cross laced patterns. There are hundreds of thousands if not millions of people riding around with radial laced front wheels with no problems...offroad and onroad. If radially laced wheels were demonstrably more dangerous than other kinds of wheels radially laced wheels would be much less common. As long as the hub is built to withstand the tension of radial lacing (almost all are), it is a structurally superior lacing pattern for a wheel that is not being subjected to torque loads through the hub.

Last edited by mihlbach; 09-29-10 at 08:25 PM.
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Old 07-25-12, 09:25 AM
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I don't care what anybody says (or what the trigonometry 'tells' you,) radially laced wheels make flexy wheels. I know the trigonometry says otherwise, but every wheel I've built that's radially laced are noodly and frequently come out of true. I've built literally hundreds of wheels. 3x is all I will ever use on my own bikes.

I recently bought a wheel built by another extremely accomplished wheel builder that was radially laced. I thought it was my fork flexing causing my brakes to rub when landing on things off camber (the wheel is on a trials bike.) I re-laced the wheel last night with the same brand of db spokes 3x and the wheel no longer rubs on the brakes when loaded laterally nor does it feel like it's about to collapse.
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Old 07-25-12, 09:29 AM
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Old 07-25-12, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by rupintart View Post
I don't care what anybody says (or what the trigonometry 'tells' you,) radially laced wheels make flexy wheels. I know the trigonometry says otherwise, but every wheel I've built that's radially laced are noodly and frequently come out of true. I've built literally hundreds of wheels.
Quantity doesn't matter if you don't know what you're doing. If you can't build a reliable radial wheel, you're obviously doing it wrong.

Last edited by Scrodzilla; 07-25-12 at 04:24 PM.
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