Don't think the baselayer + knee warmers are gonna cut it today.

Not to derail the topic, but on the subject of leg warmers... Does anyone have experience with Pearl Izumi thermal leg warmers? Not the 'knee' but the full length 'leg' warmers. Perhaps any leg warmers for that matter?

I'm not a fan of leg warmers, and would rather wear tights. I haven't found a pair of leg warmers yet that will stay up where they're supposed to while just walking around in normal shorts, without being ridiculously tight around the thigh. They always end up just sliding down and bunching up like an 80's aerobics video.

This is obviously solved by wearing them under bib shorts, but if I'm doing that I could just wear tights.
Unless it's too warm for tights, in which case I could just not wear leg warmers.

So, yeah. Leg warmers have a very small niche, in the "going for a super long ride where it will be 35 degrees when you start and 70 when you end" area.

****.

tried on the orion and it was perfect.

it was also 25% off with no tax and i had tons of xmas money burning a hole in my pocket and i


walked away. 300 is more than i can afford.

however, the upside is that i like the jacket enough that when i have 400 to spend on a jacket, i'll gladly spend it on that jacket. it's so beautiful.

My wife bought me a Gore Phantom Jacket for Christmas. I can testify to comfy riding at 25 degrees in light snow and much wind. They can be had around the web for $120ish plus shipping.

Just curious, which sizes did you try on? I think we're the same size-ish (6'1 175). Mine is a large, which is definitely the right choice for layering under it.
But I'm curious if a medium would be a better fit for warmer climates where you're not gonna try to squeeze a fleece and a wool sweater under neath...


I should really get to that review. Ridiculous 50 mph wind gusts here the last couple days, still feeling nothing through the jacket.
No flaws at all yet.

Yeah, please review it.

As far as the legs thing. I am fine with a pair of jeans and thermals. Even in sub 0 weather. But take off the thermals and it's over with, you can feel the ice cold jeans touching your legs.

i am very much smaller than you, 5'8'' on a good day and wear a Small.

Thermal legs are a musty.

Oh, weird.

cc just has a big mans internet demeaner. I'm debating an endura venturi vs a swrve es hoodie atm. Venturi is about 90 shipped, get to check out the ES when orange 20 gets my size in. But given I'm cold as hell chillin in a park right now, I wish I had more then this 3 year old tarck jacket for warmth.

A good friend of mine used to wear this while riding:
http://www.rei.com/media/c/1146346.jpg
Was the funniest thing ever. I'm seriously debating buying one, too.

I'm rocking this at the moment:
http://www.sierratradingpost.com/p/1...f-For-Men.html

And i just saw they're on sale, so I'm going to suggest this product. I wear it in the rain/snow, summer/winter, and it does it's job very well. For winter riding, in temps anywhere from 0 to 20 [F], I wear a standard waffle thermal under a slim jacket (in my case either the Momentum from North Face, or a regulatory fleece from Patagonia), and this on top. Hundo percent warm.

Good tip. And Payne's my last name, so please ask for permission before you ride in my fort.

two points! i have that same jersey!

so, i have a super thin gap merino wool hoodie
http://www.gap.com/browse/product.do...032&tid=gofr1r
that i got for 20 bucks
and i layered over a cotton organic tee with my conduit dt mountain hardwear shell on top.

kept me nice and warm, cept for the zipper in crosswinds and my neck in a tuck(the wool is really thin so it has zero wind resistance, even for wool)... but for twenty bucks it makes the pain of not having a bosun/orion a little more manageable.

the conduit dt is old, and breathes pretty terribly, but this evening was cold enough to keep me from sweating into the merino.

also...
looks better than it did at interbike with unamused model

so yeah... merino wool is awesome. and the gap style looks great and is pretty darn high quality for what it is. it fits me well. some gap stuff is sized 'small' and i swim in it, and some is cut very flatteringly. i worked at a gap and the quality variance in that store is ****ing shameful. plus, you overpay 50% for every single thing in the store at msrp, sometimes 90%.

luckily at 30% of the msrp, this merino gap hoodie is one of the flattering cuts and i think i got a deal.

Buy me one of those for $20. Medium.

I bought a Columbia Omnitech Interchange last year when I was in Portland for $70.00... the shell is waterproof and windproof and the separable fleece inner adds a good layer of insulation.

It has a hood but that is removable.

Rode through the freezing rain in Oregon, used it all season here (and it was a wet one) and it is serving as my main winter shell although I prefer to wear a wool sweater underneath as it breathes and insulates better and is warmer than fleece which is good to
-10 to -15C.

Have cleaned it with Nikwax once since I purchased it as one should not use detergents on technical fabrics.

Wow, not 1 but two guys on this board are sponsored by Discovery Channel.

My REI jacket has a built in bill on the hood like that, and unless I'm wearing a beanie(like that dude is) it slips far down on my forehead and covers 2/3 of my vision.

Yeah I haven't worn the hood since I got it.

Yeah you really can't be $30 bucks either.
My question: how thin are they? I purchased a jacket a while back that was advertised as waterproof and wind-resistant (it is, and does the job well) but it is sooooo thin. Im not worried about staying warm. I'm worried about ripping a hole in it if I fart or something.

That's the idea. They're windproof and can be balled up to fit into a small area... like a jersey pocket or saddle bag.

My pearl izumi barrier lite has taken quite a beating and hasn't ripped yet. It weighs like 50 grams. Pretty crazy.

I was so angry that I couldn't buy the orion i decided to buy something similar.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...1-DSC_8639.jpg
it's an eddie bauer first ascent mountain guide jacket and i paid a little more than they have it for online.
it was below 40 today and i rode through town with just this and a compression tee underneath and was comfortable as long as i was moving. pretty awesome. not an orion, but i am still pretty pleased.

My 60.00 REI jacket is identical sans inner lining, but I wear a winter compression layer under it and I bet its the very close to the same, which I got from Target for 15.00- Champion Duo-Dri brand, which is awesome riding clothes btw.

I'm sure it's a really nice jacket, but not for the price.

http://www.rei.com/product/794207

edit: seems price is higher this year.. I bought mine 3-4 years ago. also seems you found an alternative! nice jacket!

saying that your rei jacket is identical is just silly.

you're saying silly things.

96% of the performance in 95% of the situations you ride in, totally legit. identical? no. no jacket is identical to the orion, it's completely ground up designed unique and fits like no other jacket i've ever tried on.

also, your 60 dollar jacket isn't scheoller c-change. it's just not. if you can't tell the difference, great. keep shopping at target.

the orion is a better jacket and i want it. no one is going to change that. that said, my alternative is probably a lot more of an alternative than your alternative. my jacket is made out of 4-way stretch softshell (nylon spandex blend) with a thin polyester backing. yours is two way and waterproof. mine doesn't need pitzips. it's not laminated like your shell, and probably breathes much better because of it... hence not needing pit zips. that said, it's still not an orion. the orion keeps water out in ways this doesn't, and probably breathes better too.

and in fit, next to the orion, the eddie bauer first ascent jacket i just bought is a bag. it's easily got room for three sweaters under it, and it's a small. the orion would have been snug with just a heavyweight champion hoodie underneath in size small, because those fit like bags too.

our jackets are alternatives but they both compromise a lot from the orion. yours compromises a crazy amount of breathability, mine a crazy amount of water resistance.

and while our jackets may work as well as we ever need them to, they still don't fit like an orion. or breathe like one. and they don't say mission workshop on them.

fwiw i also tried on some arcteryx shells that were gore-tex pro, very similar to the orion, but were 450-500. they didn't fit as nicely as the orion, for biking or for walking around.

compared to these arcteryx examples, the orion's a bargain. and was made in arcteryx's old facility in vancouver bc.

my jacket was made in bangledesh.

That BMW M3 is a nice car, I'm sure, but not for the price. My Honda Civic is identical sans the fancy badges. But I got a spoiler on the trunk and some flame decals and I bet it's very close to the same.