seau grateau

LBS is good for a lot of things. Building a bike a la carte is not one of those things.

vw addict

build them yourself and bring them there for dishing/truing.

dsh

I can't think of anything douchier than going into a shop and telling them you are going to buy online unless they can make a reasonable offer, but I wish they'd at least give us the benefit of the doubt for being marginally smarter than a pile of rocks.

"Hey let's see if we can charge this guy a 100% markup over what he can find online. Maybe he will be stupid enough to do it."

They can get the same prices we see online through QBP or whoever, and yet they still try to get that ******** 150% profit margin (and thus lose a sale to anyone with an IQ over 70) rather than take a measly 20% profit and actually have a chance.

Silly business model.

Scrodzilla

What's really funny is that I've overheard the owner of the shop where I work as a seasonal tech tell customers that when it comes to bikes and bike parts, everything bought online are factory seconds and that's why you should always pay the extra and buy from a shop. The worst part is that some people actually fall for it.

mihlbach

Not surprised. I've heard similar types of nonsense from more than one LBS.

I've read time and time again on this list how its important to hang out at the LBS, buy them beers, etc., and the guys will be cool. What bull****. While I'm sure that if you get to know the guys at any LBS, the way they view you as a customer will change for the better. However, I'm not interested in having to "hang out", buy them beers, or have to work hard at nurturing some sort of relationship just to get honest sales tactics and reasonable prices. **** that.

For the record, a lot of online orders I make are from LBSs somewhere, including local ones. A good business model for any LBS is to also do mail order. Its so much better than having to have some twenty-something know-it-all offering ill-conceived "advice" on fit or whatever and trying to sell you overpriced crap that you don't need or want when most of the time they don't have what you are looking for in stock anyway.

TugaDude

Scrod, my wife used to work at a salon and the product reps say the same thing about shampoos, conditioners and such. That is their way to explain why Target can sell their shampoo for a lower cost than the salon pays. They claim it just isn't the same formula. Total crap.

TugaDude

+1, VW Addict. I am considering doing just this. My local LBS would probably charge $15 to $20 a wheel to dish, tension and true. Lot's of money can be saved this way if you shop around for components, I'll bet.

mihlbach

The last time I ever set foot in an LBS....I was out riding, and somehow bent a tooth on my SRAM red chainring. Lacking the tools to fix it myself, I limped the bike to the nearest LBS. I asked the guy if they could bend the tooth back. They guy refused, saying that I needed a new ring. He had to go back on his word when he realized he didn't have the right ring in stock. He bent it back, and it worked fine of course. Since he bent it back for me, I asked him to order the new ring for me. I left the guy my number and told him to let me know when the new ring was in....he never called and left me waiting for a month, until I finally ordered the thing and got it for half the price in 5 days. Unfortunately, this is a typical LBS experience, not an unusual one. I have no sympathy for shops like this (most of them, btw) who go out of business because they were too stupid to treat customers right from the get-go or a adopt a sane business model that is non-predatory in nature

adamsa1

I appreciate all this lbs advice but I think this thread has gone slightly off topic I've been to a bunch of lbs's like you guys have described.. I think the place I'm going to is pretty decent (ie: good customer service, lack of beer guzzling occurring, all around nice dudes).. regardless of their markup.

Whats most helpful is knowing just how much the markup is.. On the small stuff, I'm not terribly worried but for larger parts like wheels and cranks.. Its definitely helpful. In the none douchiest way, I hope I can save a few bucks on larger item and make educated purchases during this process. I'd prefer to not offend the lbs by doing it a'la carte style but just like their markup, business is business.

I could as other people have suggested, try to build it myself.. but having no tools and no experience makes it seem like a pretty daunting task. I'm not 100% opposed to trying.. I have no idea where to begin in that department. Regardless, I'd still like to start with a good parts list.

mihlbach

#26 sums is up nicely. LBSs are best at selling complete bikes and bike maintenence. Building a custom bike, is not something LBSs normally do. Paying absolute full retail for all the individual parts is going to cost you through the nose and you are still going to end up with a bike that is inferior to a stock bike that costs less. Your propose component list in post #1 amply demonstrates this. I could put together a whole bike for that price with better parts using online sources.

If you aren't comfortable with building a bike on your own, I suggest you buy a stock bike either online or from the LBS. Custom bikes are for experienced cyclists, who have a good understanding of what they want/need, and don't really need any handholding by the LBS.
However, there are online dealers, such as IRO that give you a lot of custom options that still cost way less that a stock bike from an LBS.

If cycling is something that you are very interested in or serious about, you really should consider freeing yourself from LBS reliance ASAP. This includes learning your own wrenching and how to buy parts online, because if you ride on a daily basis, relying totally on the LBS for everything is going to financially drain you. Good bike shops understand this....thats why they sell tools. Buy a stock bike, learn your own wrenching, buy tools as you need them. You'll save a lot of money in the long run.

adamsa1

I already know it will cost more with an lbs. That's fine and its really not the point of this thread. At this point I'm well aware of your feelings about lbs's

I'd prefer to just focus on getting the best parts (relatively speaking) for my frameset. I already purchased the frameset.. So there's no need to suggest that I just buy a pre-built bike. I'd love to get back to the topic at hand but I fear the thread is too far gone.

mihlbach

Don't ever think you are offending anybody. You are only going to screw yourself with this mentality. Its business...they compete....thats normal. If they are offended buy you going elsewhere or refusing to pay full retail, then they shouldn't be in business in the first place.

adamsa1

If I was really worried, I wouldn't have come to the internet and elsewhere for other opinions before moving forward with the build.

mihlbach

Order them online. Or, if you insist in buying parts from the LBS, the first thing you should do is figure out exactly what parts you are getting. A lot of the parts in your list aren't specific enough. (e.g. "kevlar tire" is meaningless). Then at least you can look the parts up online and see how much you are overpaying and what you may be able to get for the same price from other sources.

Scrodzilla

You're only supposed to come in with beers for the techs.

One time a guy came in who was a commuter and needed a quick headset repair done quickly so he he could get back on the road. Luckily I was within earshot because as one of the "sales team" started weaving a tale of "I can't have my tech drop what he's doing and push aside scheduled work to bla bla blaaaaarrgh" I said, I'm in between tune ups and can check it out right now. Go grab a sandwich or a coffee across the street and I'll have it done when you get back." He went away, I started fixing his bike and he came back with a six pack for doing the job on the spot. Before I took his bike down from the stand I ended up fixing a loose fender, adjusting his derailleurs, checked his brakes, made sure his crank arms were tight and sent him off without paying a dime.

I know..."cool story bro".

jpaschall

Plenty of people have already given you advice, and you haven't provided enough information about the frame for anyone to give you any further advice. Like mihlbach said, it's hard to give you suggestions for a stem, seatpost, etc, when all you've done is say "stem - $35". Is the fork threaded or threadless? What size is the headtube? Before anyone can give you a suggestion on what to buy, you have to fill in some details about the bike and what you want. Do the prices you've listed include installation?

My 2 cents, don't pay $400 for wheels when you can get a set of better or at least equal quality wheels online for significantly cheaper. Like others have said "Sugino 48t - $110" doesn't let us know if you're getting a good deal. For RD2's that's a good price; even for RD's that's probably a good price from an LBS. $50 for a generic headset isn't great, you can get a Cane Creek headset for a similar price (unless the price you listed includes installation). Essentially, you can get everything cheaper online, probably better quality, and after the LBS charges you for installation, probably still come out cheaper than your "LBS approved" build plan.

vw addict

Not only will you save money but you'll have the satisfaction of riding wheels you built. If you screw it up bad you can always take them apart and try again, or worst case bring the entire mess to a shop and have them fix them. It's really not hard with the right instructions. You may even be able to convince a shop employee with some beer to show you how do do it, make sure you pay them well too, the beer should just be an enticing bonus. Not sure if your LBS does that but I have no problem showing customers how to do things, unless it is super busy.

FastJake

Unless I missed it somewhere, we STILL don't know what your frame is. That would help a lot in determining if you're putting junk parts on a nice frame, or throwing a lot of money at a junk frame.

In any case, buying the components you listed will give you a mediocre bike for the cost of a very nice bike. If you want "the best parts", or even decent parts, it's going to cost you a small fortune at the prices from your bike shop.

Honestly, since this seems new to you, you might be better off selling your frame and buying a complete bike. Or buying a complete bike to strip the parts from and sell that frame. Unless money is no object, your current plan of picking components from the LBS (that you know nothing about) doesn't make sense.

TejanoTrackie 

I think there is a lot of variation in service, value and competency with LBS, and that it's foolish to adopt an extreme go / no go attitude about them. I don't share the attitude of some of our illustrious forumites that LBS are all evil lying conniving incompetent drunkard rip-off artists who will rob the innocent consumer blind. However, unfortunately, all those negative elements exist in many shops, and one should pick and choose which shops to patronize and for what products or services. I like to spread the wealth so to speak among a half dozen or so shops in my area, based on their abilities and attitude towards customers. For example, there is a high end shop near me that caters to rich tri geeks, who think nothing of spending over $10K on a tribike. I had them build my road bike 6 1/2 years ago, and the price was about the same as buying and modifying a complete stock bike. Tires and whatnot are very expensive there, but their prices on shoes are reasonable and they will let you try before you buy, so I buy all my cycling footwear there. Also, they have the special Shimano oven for fitting their thermomold shoes. If you walk in with a quick service issue, unless they are really busy, they will drop whatever they are doing and take care of it without charge. Recently, I needed the cf steerer tube cut on a new fork, and they have a proper power saw to do this. They had it done in 5 minutes as I waited and charged me nothing. On another occasion they traded me a short brake bolt for a long one so I could mount a front brake on a very fat fork. They really had no use for the shorter bolt I gave them, so basically they were giving me the new bolt for free. I walked into another shop looking for a good battery powered LED headlight wanting to see one working before buying. The sales guy took several demos into a store room and turned out the lights so I could see how they performed. I bought one from them, even though it was more expensive than online. A third shop, a Performance Bike, is occasionally good for parts on sale but otherwise pretty useless. Some shops are indeed populated by *******s and fools, but there's no need to frequent them when many other options are available. Yes, I buy most of my bike stuff online nowadays, and do the majority of my maintenance, repair and assembly myself. However, I still rely on the LBS and support them.

adamsa1

I suppose the partial dilemma is that I don't need the *best* parts. Most city riders don't need the best per se.. It's more about good. In this case, the frame is a cinelli gazzetta. Had I been able to buy it complete, I probably would have.. I know not everyone is a big fan of that frame so I a little hesitant to get the haters on a roll but people started ripping on LBS's.. so here we are anyway.

jpaschall

Who cares if the haters come? You bought a nice frame, don't let them get you down. Velo Orange sells quality, really good looking stems for the same price the LBS is asking. As far as drop bars go, you have a lot of choices, but $20 seems to imply that you're going to be getting some budget drops that may not have the look you're going for. Nitto is always a good option for bars, but will be significantly more expensive than your LBS's $20 asking price. I could go on, but I don't know what you're budget is like. If it were me, I wouldn't put bargain parts on a frame I spent $500 + dollars on, simply because it seems counter intuitive to me.

adamsa1

Very true. Its the internet.. Haters will come out no matter what I figured going into this that I would be spending 700-1000 on parts but.. so it helps to hear what you guys think I could do based on that kind of general budget.

dsh

The Gazzetta is a cool frame. The worst you'll get here is people tell you it's overpriced, but when it comes to quality steel frames like the Gazzetta that's really not for them to decide. Nothing to be embarrassed about. I'd ride one if I had it.

Because of how much you spent on the frame we're probably safe in assuming this isn't a "budget build". But the important part is that you've got a frame worthy of nicer components, and if you buy those nicer components at retail from an LBS you're going to be spending about a thousand bucks more than you need to.

Your $700-1000 parts range is pretty generous. You shouldn't have much problem building a very nice bike with that, assuming you do the shopping yourself.

I know you seemed hesitant before, but you really might consider learning how to assemble and maintain the bike yourself. If you set aside even $100 of that for tools, you will save yourself a lot of time and money down the road by being able to do your own routine maintenance.

It really doesn't take much to get a home workshop set up... a chain tool, a crank puller, a chain whip / lockring spanner, a set of hex keys, and a socket wrench set should really get you well on your way. Things like installing headsets may be sticky wickets, but that is why you have an LBS.

You won't get near the funny looks if you walk in with a new frame and ask them to install a headset, as you would if you walk in with a shopping cart full of parts and ask them to put the whole thing together.

jpaschall

Wheels $400

Headset $145

Stem $35

Cranks $120

Drops $60

Seatpost $90

I mean, with $1000 as a budget for parts, you can pretty much get better than just good EVERYTHING. I'll stop here, but you could get all top notch parts for under/around $1000 easily.

adamsa1

Thanks for the links! I had been looking at those wheels.. Wouldn't I need a flip flop hub to ride single speed though?

I'd rather not spend $1000 but I know how these projects in the end can end up costing more than one anticipated.. So I'm just being open to the possibility of that happening.

No reason to stop with the suggestions though.. Much appreciated.