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light wheelset advice

Old 02-22-11, 07:06 PM
  #26  
Alphanumeric
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Originally Posted by dansjustchillin View Post
I'm going with some chubs to aeroheads for my lighter wheel build. radial front 2x rear.
It says right on the chub site that you can't radial lace chub their front hubs.

We do not recommend radial lacing for this hub. Radial lacing can compromise the bearing fit in the hub body and can be hard on the flanges. We are hard at work on creating a Chub Road Front that can be radial laced to your favorite rim. Stay tuned.
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Old 02-22-11, 07:23 PM
  #27  
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It doesnt say you can't, it says they don't recommend it. Shimano says they don't want you lacing dura ace hub radially either but that doesnt stop anyone. My coworker has had his chubs to deep Vs for quite a while. Many miles and many alley cats later he's had no issues. It'll be fine.
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Old 02-22-11, 07:26 PM
  #28  
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From the Chub manual:

Radial lacing is only acceptable for front road hubs. Lacing your mountain hubs (f or r) or fixed rear hubs radially is not only dumb, but specifically defeats the purpose of building wheels using Chub hubs. This will this void your warranty and we will heckle you about it as well.
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Old 02-22-11, 07:26 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Ken Cox View Post
Some of the wheels described by other forumites in this thread weigh well in excess of 1700 grams, despite the claim of the poster.

Dura Ace hubs, Sapim CX-Ray spokes with DT-Swiss RR 1.1 rims comes in at 1574 grams; at my present weight, 200lbs, I would not ride anything lighter on the street.
I can't see how that wheelset could weigh in at only 1574g. I actually have a set of 32 hole Dura-Ace hubs laced to DT-Swiss RR 1.2 rims with DT-Swiss spokes and nipples and the front wheel weighs in at 1050g. The RR 1.2 rim is heavier than the 1.1, but only by 120g which brings the wheel down to 960g. So, without even taking in account the rear hub weighing a few grams more this brings the wheelset weight to 1920g. Am I missing something or were you talking about a wheelset with an extremely low spoke count? or perhaps low flange road hubs? or maybe the those Sapim CX-Ray spokes are really really light...

Last edited by Alphanumeric; 02-22-11 at 07:30 PM.
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Old 02-22-11, 07:33 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by dansjustchillin View Post
It doesnt say you can't, it says they don't recommend it. Shimano says they don't want you lacing dura ace hub radially either but that doesnt stop anyone. My coworker has had his chubs to deep Vs for quite a while. Many miles and many alley cats later he's had no issues. It'll be fine.
I guess its just them not having the same confidence in their product as Phil does. So, if the bearings wear prematurely or the flange fails they have themselves covered when they deny your warranty claim. Either way its good know someone is having some luck radial lacing them.

Last edited by Alphanumeric; 02-23-11 at 12:38 AM.
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Old 02-22-11, 09:09 PM
  #31  
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I am putting these on my bike:

http://www.rolwheels.com/rol_race_sl_wheels.php
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Old 02-23-11, 03:13 PM
  #32  
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i'll add another nod for the kinlin rims...i have had excellent luck with the 30mm in several applications (though none fixed). they really do come close to that elusive combo of light/strong/cheap (almost?).

at ~175lbs i went with 20/24 and dt swiss hubs. they weigh in at ~1450g. most of the time, they're great. when i am sloppy and absolutely stomping, i wish they were 24/28. my factory-built cane creek volos are 24/28, and noticeably stiffer with a lower profile rim (aerohead, actually). [nerd note: the campy dt swiss 240s hub has fairly narrow flange spacing and builds a slightly less-stiff wheel as well.]

add hubs and spokes to suit your own function/budget/bling equation. were i doing it, i think it would be cxray spokes and paul hubs. round spokes with formula hubs would be a great budget option. 32/32 if i was urban, 24/28 otherwise.

and i would use an experienced wheelbuilder. he may have his own suggestions for build ideas, and i would certainly listen. most importantly, he is going to deliver a superior product. The $60-80 it may cost will be well worth it in the long term.

Last edited by dookie; 02-23-11 at 09:02 PM.
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Old 02-24-11, 06:53 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Ken Cox View Post

Mihlbach has a wheel build that weighs less, costs less, and with which he has street experience.

Perhaps he'll contribute to this thread.
The exact build doesn't matter. Basically, just use a lightweight road front hub, a formula or dimension rear (to keep costs down), and pair it with the Kinlin rims of your choice (or something else light like an aerohead), and lace the whole thing up with strongly butted spokes, either CXrays or some other round spoke with the same butting (2.0/1.5/2.0). The exact weight doesn't matter, but you should be able to easily get into the 1500 gm range or under with this strategy. The deeper rim you choose the stiffer the wheel and less spokes you need, but deeper rims add a few grams. I'm about 190 and prefer a 27 or 30 mm deep rim with 24-28 spokes...about 1500 gms wheelset. If you can build the wheels yourself or get them built for free somehow (by a friend), you'll be able to do this for ~$300 (more or less depending on what parts you choose). When built by a competent person, FG wheels are very stiff and strong due to the lack of dish, so you can get away with a lot less weight than you might think you can. Most people riding FG/SS are riding on wheels that are way overbuilt (2000+ gms).
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Old 02-24-11, 12:58 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Alphanumeric View Post
I can't see how that wheelset could weigh in at only 1574g. I actually have a set of 32 hole Dura-Ace hubs laced to DT-Swiss RR 1.2 rims with DT-Swiss spokes and nipples and the front wheel weighs in at 1050g. The RR 1.2 rim is heavier than the 1.1, but only by 120g which brings the wheel down to 960g. So, without even taking in account the rear hub weighing a few grams more this brings the wheelset weight to 1920g. Am I missing something or were you talking about a wheelset with an extremely low spoke count? or perhaps low flange road hubs? or maybe the those Sapim CX-Ray spokes are really really light...
Go here:

http://www.wheelbuilder.com/store/wh...alculator.html

The sub-1600 gram wheelset I cited had Dura Ace hubs and alloy nipples, you get 1574 grams.

The wheel weight calculator above does not include Dura Ace hubs in its selection menu.

If you do brass nipples (which I recommend), 28 X 32 spokes (for the street), and Phil hubs, you get 1689 grams for less than $700.
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Old 02-24-11, 01:30 PM
  #35  
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Those Chubs ain't cheap. I think that fat carbon one retails for $235, but can be found cheaper online. I forgot the MSRP for the front Chub, but expect it to be at least $130, again found cheaper online.

That carbon looks kinda silly -- which I like -- but it weighs 296 grams. Cog magazine reported it was significantly lighter than a Phil rear fixed hub, which I believe is about 400 grams.

I suppose if you're considering hitting the velodrome those ~115 grams matter.

Last edited by XianRL; 02-24-11 at 01:31 PM. Reason: facts
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Old 02-24-11, 01:44 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by mihlbach View Post
The exact build doesn't matter. Basically, just use a lightweight road front hub, a formula or dimension rear (to keep costs down), and pair it with the Kinlin rims of your choice (or something else light like an aerohead), and lace the whole thing up with strongly butted spokes, either CXrays or some other round spoke with the same butting (2.0/1.5/2.0). The exact weight doesn't matter, but you should be able to easily get into the 1500 gm range or under with this strategy. The deeper rim you choose the stiffer the wheel and less spokes you need, but deeper rims add a few grams. I'm about 190 and prefer a 27 or 30 mm deep rim with 24-28 spokes...about 1500 gms wheelset. If you can build the wheels yourself or get them built for free somehow (by a friend), you'll be able to do this for ~$300 (more or less depending on what parts you choose). When built by a competent person, FG wheels are very stiff and strong due to the lack of dish, so you can get away with a lot less weight than you might think you can. Most people riding FG/SS are riding on wheels that are way overbuilt (2000+ gms).
With all respect, I think you'll see 1792 grams with Mihlbach's formula, above.

http://www.wheelbuilder.com/store/wh...alculator.html

Kinlin's lightest clincher rims weigh 60 grams (per pair) more than either Velocity Aeroheads or DT Swiss RR 1.1's, and conventional double-butted spokes add 90 grams (per pair).

CX-Ray spokes (and DT Aerolite) weigh a third less than conventional double-butted spokes, test stronger by far, but cost an additional $90 for two wheels.

I ride at a minimum of 200 lbs (no pack), and, for the street, I feel at risk with less than 32 spokes in back and 28 in front, especially riding at night (even with good lighting, I've hit some potholes at night).

Still, Mihlbach's observation about the extra strength of having no dish intrigues me.

I'd like to see a picture of a 28 spoke rear wheel.

It sounds aesthetically interesting.

Seven pairs of crossing spokes per side.
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Old 02-24-11, 01:48 PM
  #37  
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just go here:

http://bdopcycling.com/Hubs-FGSS.asp

Cheap, lightish, low spoke counts. I can't find anywhere else that sells fixed hubs with lower spoke counts.
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Old 02-24-11, 07:01 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Ken Cox View Post
With all respect, I think you'll see 1792 grams with Mihlbach's formula, above.
I didn't give a specific fomula and whatever you are weighing with virtual online measurements to get 1792 gms, is not my wheelset. My wheels are 1560 gms (real world weight), using 30mm Kinlin rims, formula track rear and a formula ROAD front hub with bolt on skewer and CX ray spokes (24 in front, radial, with 28 in rear, 2x), with alu nipples in front and brass in the rear. I have about 10000 street miles on this wheelset now with no retensioning or retruing. Thats not nearly the lightest wheelset available, but it is a good compromise of strength, stiffness, durability, and weight.

Just a couple of important facts...
CX ray spokes begin life as a 2.0/1.5/2.0 mm round spokes, so any round spoke with the same dimensions is going to weigh the same, but cost much less. Wheelsmith makes a great round spoke (XL 14) with these dimensions that I have had good luck with that costs about a third the price.

Kinlin rims are the lightest alloy rims per mm depth that you can buy. They are lighter than aeroheads and mavics (again, per mm of rim depth), accorcing to everything I have ever read and also according to my scale. Kinlin's lighteset available rim (XR200) is 390 gms and with those rims its possible to easily build a ~1400 gm wheelset without spending a lot of money.

Undished track wheels are stronger and more fatigue resistant than road wheels, because the spoke tension is symmetrical, meaning that the NDS spokes are much tighter, and the DS hub flange is much farther outboard than a freehub wheel. Therefore you can get away with less material in your rear wheel. Its not unusual these days for guys approaching 200 lbs to ride heavily dished road wheels with 24 and fewer spokes. Using modern wheel components, a similar person can easily get away with less than 32 spokes on a track wheel, if the wheel is built properly. A 28 and even a 24 spoke track wheel built with a high flange hub and a 27+mm deep rim is going to be plenty strong for someone pushing 200 lbs.

Check out this thread...it has everything you want to know.
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...htish-wheelset

Last edited by mihlbach; 02-24-11 at 07:19 PM. Reason: added some details
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Old 02-25-11, 06:33 PM
  #39  
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late...

Originally Posted by mihlbach View Post

Check out this thread...it has everything you want to know.
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...htish-wheelset
post #21
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...1#post12264827
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Old 02-25-11, 06:39 PM
  #40  
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just curious, what are some NON-homebuilt, already complete wheelsets?
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Old 02-25-11, 07:07 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by illdthedj View Post
just curious, what are some NON-homebuilt, already complete wheelsets?
The Reynolds Recon wheelset I previously posted is probably the best performing wheelset you will find for the money.

Heres how they will look on your Concept. BTW the stickers are removable...




Originally Posted by Alphanumeric View Post
How about a Reynolds Recon wheelset? They are pretty light overall(1740g), but whats even more important is that they are a full carbon clincher so they have an extremely light rotational weight. The weight of the rim matters much more than the weight of the hubs. You can't beat the price of them as well. I recently picked up a set for $340 + shipping on eBay. Also, if you are going with a light weight wheeleset don't forget to go with an equally light tire/tube combo.


http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=reynolds+recon

Last edited by Alphanumeric; 02-25-11 at 07:12 PM.
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