Track Wheelset spokes??
 

So I did some searching in the track forum but couldn't find what I was looking for. I also figured some of the track peeps hang here too. Anyway...

I am am building up a wheelset for the track. I picked up a set of hubs and cold fusion rims from IRO. Now I am trying to figure out what spokes to use. I am a big guy (250lbs usually). I want to utilize my power as best I can so aim for the stiffest parts I can get. Considering these hubs (as far as I can tell they are gran compe, re-branded) and rims from IRO what is my best choice for spokes if I want a really stiff wheel? Should I stick with the classic straight gauge or is a butted spoke like the DT Swiss Competitions a better choice? Will the revolutions be too flexy or should I maybe look at the triple butted Alpine III's? Thanks...

Get some flat blade spokes. Most good track wheels seem to have them. Think about it - if you are going 40mph, the top of your wheel is going 80mph, and spokes are going to make a noticable aerodynamic drag.

Bad advice. OP will need to slot the spoke holes in the hub to install them. Bladed spokes are best used in straight pull hubs.

Why didn't you get tubular rims? Will you use these wheels on the street too?
For a significant increase in stiffness wouldn't the rim be more important than what spokes you use?

You don't need to worry about stiffness with a 32 spoke symmetrically dished track wheel, even at your weight it will be stiff. Any decent butted spoke will work, and you certainly do not need anything heavy duty. Consider something thats at least 2.0mm at the ends and 1.5-1.8 mm in the middle. If you want a reasonably priced round spoke, Wheelsmith DB14s are a very good choice...they are 2.0/1.7/2.0. I have built many wheelsets with DB14s, all with great results. They should cost you ~$1 per spoke, maybe less, depending on where you buy them. On the front wheel you could even use something more strongly butted like a wheelsmith XL14 (2.0/1.5/2.0) if you want.

DT and Sapim make similar round spokes with slightly different diameters and degrees of butting. Any of these will do. Look for good online prices and base your decision on that.


If you want to spend more money for aerodynamics, go with Sapim CX Rays, which are generally regarded as the best spoke available. They are flattened but also very strongly butted, so with still fit through standard spoke holes...no slotting required. Before flattening, CX Rays are a heavily butted round spoke (2.0/1.5/2.0) but the flattening process apparently makes them more fatigue resistant than a round spoke.

You sacrifice a little but of stiffness with butted spokes, but end up with a more durable, fatigue resistant wheel that is likely to last longer. Because track wheels have no dish, unlike a road wheel, stiffness isn't really a concern. My track wheelset has 24-28 CXRay spokes. I have ridden these wheels with a body weight up to 210 lbs and they are more than stiff enough. At your weight, with a good pair of 32 spoke wheels, spoke strength and stiffness shouldn't be a major concern.

Are you building your own wheels? Strongly butted spokes are a bit trickier to work with because they tend to wind up when tightening the nipple, which makes it difficult to get the tension right..it possible to do, but just takes more patience. CX Rays (or any flat spoke) are an exception because you can hold the spoke in place as you turn the nipple to prevent it from twisting, allowing you to tension and true the wheel with perfection.

Good luck!

Wait a minute... I'm not getting how your wheel is spinning twice as fast as the ground underneath is passing it. It's been a while since I've been in physics. Care to explain?

If you are riding at 20MPH, the axis of the wheel is traveling forward 20mph, but the other parts of moving forward at different speeds, ranging from 0-40 MPH, but always with an average speed of 20 mph. The speed of any given wheel part is depends on how far it is from from the axis and the point in the rotation. The bottom of the wheel is always moving forward 0 MPH, otherwise the tire would be sliding across the pavement. The top of the wheel is therefore always moving twice as fast as the moving speed (40mph), because it is spinning forward at 20mph as well as moving forward with you at 20mph. The spokes are between the axis and the tire and at the top of the rotation will be moving forward at a speed that is between 20-40. The distal end of the spoke will be moving closer to 40 and the proximal end will be moving closer to 20. Likewise the spoke at the bottom of the rotation is moving at a speed somewhere between 0-20, depending on the distance from the axis.

Heres another way to explain it...if you are going along at 20mph, and you lock your brake into a skid, how fast is the top of your tire moving at the moment it locks?....its moving 20mph. In order for it to spin, it must move twice as fast at the top (20mph) and zero MPH at the bottom.

Okay, that makes more sense now. Thanks!

Thanks for the physics refresher, seriously. Summer vacation is melting my brain.

Why would a 250lb guy put expensive, weaker spokes on a high spoke count track wheelset? It doesn't make sense, because you're not going to gain much aero savings from it.

Why would you think bladed spokes are weaker?

Trying to get the conversation started for the OP. I was basically going in the same direction as mihlbach although he has more experience than I do. I don't disagree with a thing he said.

The Sapim CX Rays look to be good spokes, and I would think they would work with what OP has. They are more expensive, just depends what your goals and $$$ tollerance is.

I will add that going down wind (i.e. no wind noise) I can hear the spokes for a traditional wheel as they cut through the air and cause turbulance at 30+ mph. My bladed spokes are silent. There are other differences between these two wheel sets (spoke count and hubs) but the bladed spoked wheels are noticably faster on the top end. Doesn't make much difference below 25mph though.

So update, I built the wheel set. I ended up going with the straight gauge spokes for a few reasons. The added stiffness of the wheel, being my first build not wanting to deal with spoke wind-up and price. I am very happy with how they came out. I got to race on them last night and they were awesome. I had to rush to finish them 1 hour before my race too, and yet they still came out really nice. I cant believe I was so intimidated to build up wheels for so long. It was actually really easy, just really ****ing time consuming. I cant wait to have some nicer parts to build up a really nice wheelset.

Next time use double butted spokes. While straight gauge looks strong, they're a bit easier to break if something gets jammed in the wheel, where double butted will just bend.

Because if you're a heavy enough guy to make your rim D shaped while riding, the spokes have less material to resist outward bending and would be more prone to snapping? I really doubt they have lower tensile strength, but you don't break spokes from that typically.

I am going to on my next wheelset. On this one, the price was a big part and I really wanted a stiffer wheel for sprinting on. If I had deeper section rims I might have done double butted...

It doesn't work that way. Wire spokes of any type can't resist compression, only tension. It does not matter if they are round or bladed. Spoke tension, not spoke shape is more important to the structural stability of the wheel.
Also bladed spokes don't have less material...they start out as a round spoke and are flattened, so the cross sectional area is the same. I have read that the flattening makes them more fatigue resistant than round spokes, but that could marketin bs...I'm not sure.

This is the crux of the matter. Spoke tension is far and away the most important factor in wheel building. A wheel is a prestressed structure, which derives its strength from the stress state of its elements. The spokes are cables that must remain in tension and the rim must remain in circumferential (hoop) compression. A properly tensioned wheel will never get out of true unless there is damage to the rim.