Notices
Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

BMX cassette hub

Old 05-14-11, 11:38 PM
  #1  
Kristen23
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Kristen23's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Latrobe, PA
Posts: 13

Bikes: Trek XO1, Fuji Feather

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
BMX cassette hub

I have a Fuji Feather which Iím customizing. The stock gearing was way too low for me (46/16). Right now I am running 49/16 on it and can still make it up most of the hills where I live. However, I canít get enough speed on the flats. Taking it up to a 52 would be negligible. Iíd like to switch to a cassette hub instead of the freewheel. However with my 120mm spacing, the only option seems to be a bmx hub, with 3/8Ē axle, and space it out. I donít know much about bmx hubs though. I found a couple that looked promising (G Sport, KHE) except they have drivers instead of replaceable cogs. Not sure I want to be running a 49/9!!! Iíd like maybe 11 or 12. Also I need something that is going to hold up to a lot of torque because I ride hard.

And I realize that Chris King may be my best bet, but not sure I want to shell out that kind of money right now. Just looking for other options. Thanks
Kristen23 is offline  
Old 05-15-11, 12:07 AM
  #2  
UCF Eric
OASAASLLS
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Orlando FL
Posts: 673

Bikes: Pake, Surly Pacer, Kilo TT, Giant XTC, SE Stout, 853 Ritchey MTB

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
At 49/16 I can't imagine how you aren't getting enough speed on the flats.....are you spinning at all?
UCF Eric is offline  
Old 05-15-11, 12:33 AM
  #3  
fuzz2050
Real Men Ride Ordinaries
 
fuzz2050's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,723
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
I think the answer lies in improved technique rather than new gear.
fuzz2050 is offline  
Old 05-15-11, 12:34 AM
  #4  
frantik
Chainstay Brake Mafia
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: California
Posts: 6,026
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by UCF Eric View Post
At 49/16 I can't imagine how you aren't getting enough speed on the flats.....are you spinning at all?
I need something that is going to hold up to a lot of torque because I ride hard.
there's the answer to that question
frantik is offline  
Old 05-15-11, 02:17 AM
  #5  
bleedingapple
Senior Member
 
bleedingapple's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 698

Bikes: Leader 722TS, Surly Cross Check, GT Outpost, Haro Z16, Trek 1000

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
drop your gearing and spin faster... high gear does not always equal more speed. I have a friend who, when we ride together kicks my ass in his super spiny gear vs. my high gear.
bleedingapple is offline  
Old 05-15-11, 03:26 AM
  #6  
avner
Fueled by Tigers Blood
 
avner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Echo Park, California
Posts: 1,484
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
i know a guy who won a cat 4 race on a 49/17 SS. I think you're fast enough.
avner is offline  
Old 05-15-11, 04:27 AM
  #7  
Scrodzilla
This place sucks.
 
Scrodzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 26,054
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 640 Post(s)
Liked 90 Times in 50 Posts
Originally Posted by fuzz2050 View Post
I think the answer lies in improved technique rather than new gear.
qft
Scrodzilla is offline  
Old 05-15-11, 06:32 AM
  #8  
Kristen23
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Kristen23's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Latrobe, PA
Posts: 13

Bikes: Trek XO1, Fuji Feather

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks but technique is fine. Guess I should have probably explained though that I am interested more in developing strength than spinning at very high cadence. And on the flats, I want to be able to pedal against some resistance, which I'm not getting. I also spend a good bit of time on my road bike, and often dont shift out of 50/12. With that gearing I find I am going at a faster average pace than with 49/16. And getting fatigued less quicky. I compete in running, and find riding in higher gears has really benefitted.

So no ideas on the hub?
Kristen23 is offline  
Old 05-15-11, 06:50 AM
  #9  
Kristen23
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Kristen23's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Latrobe, PA
Posts: 13

Bikes: Trek XO1, Fuji Feather

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rode 50 miles on a completely flat course the other day. It's a 2 mile loop. Avg 20 mph spinning like crazy. I also have a 3 mile hilly loop I ride a lot. I've done it on my road bike in highest gear at avg 21 mph.
Kristen23 is offline  
Old 05-15-11, 08:42 AM
  #10  
UCF Eric
OASAASLLS
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Orlando FL
Posts: 673

Bikes: Pake, Surly Pacer, Kilo TT, Giant XTC, SE Stout, 853 Ritchey MTB

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
If your "spinning like crazy" only gets you to 20 then I can't imagine what you have to do to get to like 30. If you're interested in building a lot of muscle find a parking garage and climb up the levels, ride down and repeat.
UCF Eric is offline  
Old 05-15-11, 11:02 AM
  #11  
mihlbach
Senior Member
 
mihlbach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 6,607
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
Liked 83 Times in 43 Posts
Originally Posted by Kristen23 View Post
Rode 50 miles on a completely flat course the other day. It's a 2 mile loop. Avg 20 mph spinning like crazy. I also have a 3 mile hilly loop I ride a lot. I've done it on my road bike in highest gear at avg 21 mph.
A cadence of ~83 @20 MPH is not even close to "spinning like crazy". I agree with the others, you need to work on your technique. You ideas of gearing and cadence are completely contrary to all cycling common sense. Your current gear ratio is about as high as I would go at your pace. I can spin 49x16 well past 40mph....thats spinning like crazy.

Riding around for 50 miles at 20mph with 49x12 or 49x11 is no substitute for weight training, if thats what you are thinking. That gear ratio is absurd..it isn't going to help you gain strength, and it isn't going to make you any faster. Learn to spin and if you want to get strong do sprints and hill repeats in a sensible gear.

As for feehubs, I've looked into this a bit and there are plenty of BMX racing (not freestyle) freehubs out there that take normal (shimano-type) cogs, and have an axle diameter appropriate for a ss/fg or road frame. (check out Kore, Odyssey, and Shimano). You will still need to replace the axle with a longer one to respace it, and unless you buy a very expensive Shimano BMX hub, the chainline is going to be a bit narrow.

Last edited by mihlbach; 05-15-11 at 11:13 AM.
mihlbach is offline  
Old 05-15-11, 01:44 PM
  #12  
Kristen23
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Kristen23's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Latrobe, PA
Posts: 13

Bikes: Trek XO1, Fuji Feather

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Ok, first of all, I asked a technical question pertaining to HUBS. Not my technique. Again, my technique is fine, thank you very much. I am not looking for an extremely high cadence. I am first an foremost an ultrarunner, and cycling in the higher gears works for me. It HAS made me faster. I don't just race. I ****ing win now. I am not looking for a substiute for weight training. I love cycling, but i want to feel something when I'm doing it. An extremely high cadence is contrary to the way I wish to train my muscles for running long distances over grueling terrain. I know my body better than anyone, and I have been racing for 10+ years.

Thank you for the hub information. I will look into that.
Kristen23 is offline  
Old 05-15-11, 01:45 PM
  #13  
Kristen23
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Kristen23's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Latrobe, PA
Posts: 13

Bikes: Trek XO1, Fuji Feather

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Yeah good idea, but I live in a small city and the parking garages are only about 3 levels!
Kristen23 is offline  
Old 05-15-11, 02:21 PM
  #14  
Dr. Banzai
Oscillation overthruster
 
Dr. Banzai's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Duncan, BC
Posts: 1,532

Bikes: Cinelli Mash / CAAD9 5

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Call up Dan's Comp with your specs. Talk to bmx people, not people that whinge about what you want to do.
Dr. Banzai is offline  
Old 05-15-11, 02:23 PM
  #15  
bleedingapple
Senior Member
 
bleedingapple's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 698

Bikes: Leader 722TS, Surly Cross Check, GT Outpost, Haro Z16, Trek 1000

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
post photos of your legs. if you dont shift out of 50/12 (109 gear inches) and you want to run something like that single speed, you must have legs equal to chris hoy.

Also like mihlbach said you cant be spinning like crazy at 20mph with that gearing. you also might be amazed what good spinning will do for your legs.
bleedingapple is offline  
Old 05-15-11, 02:24 PM
  #16  
mihlbach
Senior Member
 
mihlbach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 6,607
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
Liked 83 Times in 43 Posts
Another option for you would be a flip flop bmx hub. Bmx flip flops have smaller metric threads on one side for which there are thread-on freewheels as low as 13t, which, when paired with you 49t ring is still going to give you what most athletes would agree is an absurdly high gear for training.

You are free to do what you want, of course, but don't expect others not to comment when what you are asking for defies common sense. I know a lot of runners, triathletes, trainers, and cyclists and I don't think a single one of them would ever recommend the gear ratio that you are aiming for. You may be convinced that an extremely high gear ratio is good training, but have you considered the possibility that running a more reasonable gear ratio would benefit you even more.
mihlbach is offline  
Old 05-15-11, 02:28 PM
  #17  
mihlbach
Senior Member
 
mihlbach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 6,607
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
Liked 83 Times in 43 Posts
Originally Posted by Dr. Banzai View Post
Call up Dan's Comp with your specs. Talk to bmx people, not people that whinge about what you want to do.
I've attempted to talk to numerous bmx people about converting bmx hubs for SS use. They are universally clueless about the chain line and locknut spacing issues that you will have to contend with.
mihlbach is offline  
Old 05-15-11, 02:36 PM
  #18  
mihlbach
Senior Member
 
mihlbach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 6,607
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
Liked 83 Times in 43 Posts
Something I've always wanted to do is build a flip flop out of this hub, which would give you a freehub on one side and a bolt-on fixed cog on the other. You would have to replace the axle, and respace to 120mm, but otherwise there is no reason it would not work. The chainline would be a mm or two narrower than a typical track chainline, but not enough to make a difference. They also make a non-disc freehub if you aren't interested in riding fixed and that hub could be dished slightly and spacers positioned appropriately to give you a chainline that exactly matches your chainring.

If you are interested I did correspond with Kore about this hub, and got some information out of them which I could forward to you if I can find it.




Last edited by mihlbach; 05-15-11 at 02:42 PM.
mihlbach is offline  
Old 05-15-11, 02:45 PM
  #19  
Kristen23
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Kristen23's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Latrobe, PA
Posts: 13

Bikes: Trek XO1, Fuji Feather

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by bleedingapple View Post
post photos of your legs. if you dont shift out of 50/12 (109 gear inches) and you want to run something like that single speed, you must have legs equal to chris hoy.

Also like mihlbach said you cant be spinning like crazy at 20mph with that gearing. you also might be amazed what good spinning will do for your legs.

Lol. Well I do have big thighs, but mostly from running up mountains!

Well, it's all relative. For me it feels like spinning like crazy. And I'm open to working on cadence, but just isn't a primary concern of mine.
Kristen23 is offline  
Old 05-15-11, 02:50 PM
  #20  
Kristen23
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Kristen23's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Latrobe, PA
Posts: 13

Bikes: Trek XO1, Fuji Feather

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mihlbach View Post
Another option for you would be a flip flop bmx hub. Bmx flip flops have smaller metric threads on one side for which there are thread-on freewheels as low as 13t, which, when paired with you 49t ring is still going to give you what most athletes would agree is an absurdly high gear for training.

You are free to do what you want, of course, but don't expect others not to comment when what you are asking for defies common sense. I know a lot of runners, triathletes, trainers, and cyclists and I don't think a single one of them would ever recommend the gear ratio that you are aiming for. You may be convinced that an extremely high gear ratio is good training, but have you considered the possibility that running a more reasonable gear ratio would benefit you even more.
I've considered the bmx flip-flop, however I'm leaning more towards a freehub that takes cogs. I love riding in the rain, and assume that isn't the best thing for a freewheel.

I realize I defy common sense. Lol. Sorry I got a bit defensive. I do have out of the ordinary training techniques that almost no one agrees with! To each his/her own. I do appreciate the advice though.
Kristen23 is offline  
Old 05-15-11, 02:54 PM
  #21  
Kristen23
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Kristen23's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Latrobe, PA
Posts: 13

Bikes: Trek XO1, Fuji Feather

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mihlbach View Post
Something I've always wanted to do is build a flip flop out of this hub, which would give you a freehub on one side and a bolt-on fixed cog on the other. You would have to replace the axle, and respace to 120mm, but otherwise there is no reason it would not work. The chainline would be a mm or two narrower than a typical track chainline, but not enough to make a difference. They also make a non-disc freehub if you aren't interested in riding fixed and that hub could be dished slightly and spacers positioned appropriately to give you a chainline that exactly matches your chainring.

If you are interested I did correspond with Kore about this hub, and got some information out of them which I could forward to you if I can find it.



Yes! I was actually wondering if there was anything out there like what you want to build!! I haven't ridden fixed yet, except for a couple laps around parking lots! But perhaps in the future.

The Kore info would be great to have. Thanks.
Kristen23 is offline  
Old 05-15-11, 02:59 PM
  #22  
mihlbach
Senior Member
 
mihlbach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 6,607
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
Liked 83 Times in 43 Posts
Originally Posted by Kristen23 View Post
I've considered the bmx flip-flop, however I'm leaning more towards a freehub that takes cogs. I love riding in the rain, and assume that isn't the best thing for a freewheel.
I've ridden a lot of freewheels in the rain and have never had an issue. I've dismantled and rebuilt ACS metric freewheels. The internals are pretty simple and I can't imagine how rain would destroy them. At any rate, they are easy to overhaul and rebuild and if it does get trashed, its much easier and cheaper to replace than a freehub.

Be aware that a lot of BMX racing hubs are unsealed. Riding an unsealed hub in the rain won't necessarily kill it, but you may need to overhaul it once a year or so. My Shimano BMX freehub is unsealed. I think Kore BMX freehubs are sealed. I'm not sure about Odyssey or other brands.
mihlbach is offline  
Old 05-15-11, 03:07 PM
  #23  
Kristen23
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Kristen23's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Latrobe, PA
Posts: 13

Bikes: Trek XO1, Fuji Feather

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Ok, I am still riding my stock freewheel, which is prob not the best quality. It was starting to get rough and sound gritty back there when I was out in a downpour one day.

I am definitely looking for a sealed hub. Kore is sounding like a good bet.
Kristen23 is offline  
Old 05-15-11, 09:20 PM
  #24  
Dannihilator
Still kicking.
 
Dannihilator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Annandale, New Jersey
Posts: 19,658

Bikes: Bike Count: Rising.

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 145 Post(s)
Liked 27 Times in 20 Posts
Originally Posted by Kristen23 View Post
Thanks but technique is fine. Guess I should have probably explained though that I am interested more in developing strength than spinning at very high cadence. And on the flats, I want to be able to pedal against some resistance, which I'm not getting. I also spend a good bit of time on my road bike, and often dont shift out of 50/12. With that gearing I find I am going at a faster average pace than with 49/16. And getting fatigued less quicky. I compete in running, and find riding in higher gears has really benefitted.

So no ideas on the hub?
Ride the bike fixed for awhile, you may realize that your technique may need improvement afterall. Even with a SS the fact that you can coast can conceal some weakness in your pedal stroke. With a good technique you shouldn't have any issues maintaining momentum on the flats even with a more comfortable gearing all around.

My track bike is a much harder gearing than my conversion and while the track bike is faster in terms of spaced out bursts, it's much easier for me to keep a higher mph avg on the lower geared conversion.
__________________
Appreciate the old bikes more than the new.
Dannihilator is offline  
Old 05-16-11, 10:18 AM
  #25  
Xgecko
old legs
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 910
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
My BMX Cruiser has unsealed Redline hubs I repack them about once a year and they are faster than any sealed hub I have ever found
Xgecko is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.