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My fixed gear can coast.

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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

My fixed gear can coast.

Old 12-12-11, 01:28 AM
  #1  
Lspade
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My fixed gear can coast.

I would like to brag and say that I snapped the lockring threads off of my hub with my amazing leg power but I'm sure it is due to a multitude of other things which EXCLUDES my leg power. My most recent build is my first track-specific frame (not a road conversion) and I used to always ride with a brake on my other bike but out of my excitement to try my new bike I rode it without a brake and became obsessed with the simplicity.

On my way home from work I wanted to see how fast I could stop from a full sprint but when I smashed the pedals I suddenly found myself coasting and my pedals not turning . The passion that I have had all week about never wanting brakes again was gone in a split second.

So my question, are there any hub/lockring combinations that can take abusive stops repeatedly without failure? I don't want anything that costs more than my wheelset (DP18's) I just want a cheap and presumably heavy hub that would be impossible to strip or I will have to start riding with a brake again.

Thanks guys.

-

My set up was an aluminum origin 8 hub, steel lockring, Eighthinch cog which was tightened using the chain and cranks, the lock ring was hammered tight with a blunt metal punch. When I went to buy a tool for the lockring my local lbs (also my mtb friends, NOT fixie riders) told me to just use a hammer/flathead, do you guys think this may have lead to the failure?
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Old 12-12-11, 01:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Lspade View Post

My set up was an aluminum origin 8 hub, steel lockring, Eighthinch cog which was tightened using the chain and cranks, the lock ring was hammered tight with a blunt metal punch. When I went to buy a tool for the lockring my local lbs (also my mtb friends, NOT fixie riders) told me to just use a hammer/flathead, do you guys think this may have lead to the failure?
More than likely. You were using an improperly tightened lockring. Seems like an easy point for failure.

Although, Origin 8 stuff I've heard isn't the best, no idea about their hubs though.
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Old 12-12-11, 01:49 AM
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Any instances I've heard of people stripping out lockring threads have been related to improper setup, not cheap equipment (except maybe some buzz about formula lockrings). Make sure when you get a new hub you tighten the cog with a chainwhip and the lockring with a lockring spanner or lockring pliers. Go mash up some hills after you get them both tight and avoid skidding or intense backpressure until you tighten the lockring another time. There are plenty of guys here that ride formula hubs (i believe thats what origin 8s are) and they are regarded as solid entry level hubs.
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Old 12-12-11, 01:53 AM
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Origin 8 branded hubs are good--they're rebranded Formulas.

A proper setup will have no problem with aggressive backpedaling and skidding. If your threads aren't stripped (which means you're lucky), then do it the right way this time. Get a lockring wrench (like Park Tool's HCW-5) or Hozan lockring pliers and tighten the lockring down the right way. Also, if you're using a Formula lockring, consider getting a Dura Ace lockring. It is a pretty serious (and some say necessary) upgrade.

If your threads ARE stripped, get the same wheel. Nothing wrong with a DP18+Origin8 branded Formula if you liked it. Check Velomine.com.
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Old 12-12-11, 02:11 AM
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No matter what, do not purchase aluminum cogs/lock rings. They just don't hold up.
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Old 12-12-11, 02:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Lspade View Post
Eighthinch cog which was tightened using the chain and cranks,

Stopping like that from a "full sprint" will undo the cog just like stomping on the crank was used to tighten it. A tight lockring is meaningless without a secure cog because once the cog loosens, and you keep backpedaling, the lockring will be forced right off the hub.

You will never get the cog tight enough to ride reliably without brakes by just stomping on your cranks. Use a chainwhip and really toque that cog.
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Old 12-12-11, 02:21 AM
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wait you had a LBS tell you to use a hammer and flathead to tighten your lockring? I mean I'm sure that works for some people... but whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

a lockring tool is like $10, seems like a really unnecessary way to cut cost at the risk of destroying your equipment AND YOUR BODY
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Old 12-12-11, 02:31 AM
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This is what happens when the cog and lock ring are not adequately tightened and have to disagree with hairnet as you can tighten a cog with a chain whip but nothing tightens a cog like riding.

During the ride in period you want to check that lockring after each ride and make sure it is still tight and if not, snug it up.

And rock a brake.
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Old 12-12-11, 02:40 AM
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As someone who's had a friend do exactly what you did, the only good advice is to get a lockring tool and adjust the way you ride your bike. Since you're specifically talking about being brakeless, I'll try to give brakeless advice. Haha. ^^;;

1. If you're going at a full sprint, don't try to stop abruptly with locking your legs like that. Your weight is probably mostly on the backwheel, and while that helps you stop faster, it's just a bit too much force (imo) for your cog/lockring to handle. You can do a more leaned forward skid (not excessively so) while trying to slow down your cadence normally to slow down. Basically saying that you need to slow down gradually rather than abruptly.
2. Learn to ted shred. I mean, it's not hard. You just jam your foot between the wheel and seatstay. But it slows you down fastest in my experience with the least amount of effort. You're paying with your shoes to do this though.

Well, I guess that's it. Both of them require you to think ahead and know what's happening around you. Abrupt stops aren't really ideal or suggested on a brakeless fixed gear. In some cases, it might be better to avoid rather than stop. But it's best if you've just thought far enough ahead that you know what's happening and can slow down as necessary.

I don't know if I helped, but good luck.
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Old 12-12-11, 02:52 AM
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I have a three tooth lockring tool which provides better traction than a single toothed tool and once I know the cog is as tight as it can get I engage that tool and make sure that lock ring cannot get any tighter.

Have never had lock ring or cog failure and although I always run a brake have no worries about doing hard skids and having things fail in the back.

Conversely, have had people get their bikes from reputable shops who did not seem to know how to properly tighten a cog and lock ring and because of this, people have experienced failures.

In most cases, if a shop did the installation they have been good to cover the damages.
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Old 12-12-11, 02:58 AM
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You would probably want to to cool it with the sprints while brakeless. Just think what would have transpired if you weren't running an experiment, and you truly needed to stop and couldn't.
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Old 12-12-11, 03:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
This is what happens when the cog and lock ring are not adequately tightened and have to disagree with hairnet as you can tighten a cog with a chain whip but nothing tightens a cog like riding.
Ill trust doing both over one or the other alone. The OP didn't and then experimented in a clumsy manner
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Old 12-12-11, 03:22 AM
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Originally Posted by hairnet View Post
Ill trust doing both over one or the other alone. The OP didn't and then experimented in a clumsy manner
Definately do both... I just know that nothing tightens up a cog like some good hard riding.
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Old 12-12-11, 04:21 AM
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Originally Posted by VincentLe View Post
As someone who's had a friend do exactly what you did, the only good advice is to get a lockring tool and adjust the way you ride your bike. Since you're specifically talking about being brakeless, I'll try to give brakeless advice. Haha. ^^;;

1. If you're going at a full sprint, don't try to stop abruptly with locking your legs like that. Your weight is probably mostly on the backwheel, and while that helps you stop faster, it's just a bit too much force (imo) for your cog/lockring to handle. You can do a more leaned forward skid (not excessively so) while trying to slow down your cadence normally to slow down. Basically saying that you need to slow down gradually rather than abruptly.
2. Learn to ted shred. I mean, it's not hard. You just jam your foot between the wheel and seatstay. But it slows you down fastest in my experience with the least amount of effort. You're paying with your shoes to do this though.

Well, I guess that's it. Both of them require you to think ahead and know what's happening around you. Abrupt stops aren't really ideal or suggested on a brakeless fixed gear. In some cases, it might be better to avoid rather than stop. But it's best if you've just thought far enough ahead that you know what's happening and can slow down as necessary.

I don't know if I helped, but good luck.
wat.
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Old 12-12-11, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
Definately do both... I just know that nothing tightens up a cog like some good hard riding.
+1

I use a chain whip and a quality lockring wrench, but after the first few rides I almost always find that a bit of re-tighten can be done. If these first few rides are spend back pedaling often or are going to be longer rides I will take the lockring wrench with me until I can't move the ring even the smallest amount.
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Old 12-12-11, 08:48 AM
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Your LBS sucks.
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Old 12-12-11, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by redpear View Post
Origin 8 branded hubs are good--they're rebranded Formulas.

A proper setup will have no problem with aggressive backpedaling and skidding. If your threads aren't stripped (which means you're lucky), then do it the right way this time. Get a lockring wrench (like Park Tool's HCW-5) or Hozan lockring pliers and tighten the lockring down the right way. Also, if you're using a Formula lockring, consider getting a Dura Ace lockring. It is a pretty serious (and some say necessary) upgrade.

If your threads ARE stripped, get the same wheel. Nothing wrong with a DP18+Origin8 branded Formula if you liked it. Check Velomine.com.
TIL, thank you sir.

Originally Posted by VincentLe View Post
As someone who's had a friend do exactly what you did, the only good advice is to get a lockring tool and adjust the way you ride your bike. Since you're specifically talking about being brakeless, I'll try to give brakeless advice. Haha. ^^;;

1. If you're going at a full sprint, don't try to stop abruptly with locking your legs like that. Your weight is probably mostly on the backwheel, and while that helps you stop faster, it's just a bit too much force (imo) for your cog/lockring to handle. You can do a more leaned forward skid (not excessively so) while trying to slow down your cadence normally to slow down. Basically saying that you need to slow down gradually rather than abruptly.
2. Learn to ted shred. I mean, it's not hard. You just jam your foot between the wheel and seatstay. But it slows you down fastest in my experience with the least amount of effort. You're paying with your shoes to do this though.

Well, I guess that's it. Both of them require you to think ahead and know what's happening around you. Abrupt stops aren't really ideal or suggested on a brakeless fixed gear. In some cases, it might be better to avoid rather than stop. But it's best if you've just thought far enough ahead that you know what's happening and can slow down as necessary.

I don't know if I helped, but good luck.
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Old 12-12-11, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by VincentLe View Post
As someone who's had a friend do exactly what you did, the only good advice is to get a lockring tool and adjust the way you ride your bike. Since you're specifically talking about being brakeless, I'll try to give brakeless advice. Haha. ^^;;

1. If you're going at a full sprint, don't try to stop abruptly with locking your legs like that. Your weight is probably mostly on the backwheel, and while that helps you stop faster, it's just a bit too much force (imo) for your cog/lockring to handle. You can do a more leaned forward skid (not excessively so) while trying to slow down your cadence normally to slow down. Basically saying that you need to slow down gradually rather than abruptly.
2. Learn to ted shred. I mean, it's not hard. You just jam your foot between the wheel and seatstay. But it slows you down fastest in my experience with the least amount of effort. You're paying with your shoes to do this though.

Well, I guess that's it. Both of them require you to think ahead and know what's happening around you. Abrupt stops aren't really ideal or suggested on a brakeless fixed gear. In some cases, it might be better to avoid rather than stop. But it's best if you've just thought far enough ahead that you know what's happening and can slow down as necessary.

I don't know if I helped, but good luck.
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Old 12-12-11, 10:04 AM
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you can use rotafixing instead of using a chainwhip. It tightens the cog like crazy
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Old 12-12-11, 11:34 AM
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The lockring threads are indeed stripped but I still have the otherside which is also threaded for a cog and lockring. I was asking for hub recommendations because I assumed that any aluminum hub was going to be fragile but I read a few of you say that the DP18s can take the abuse if setup properly (which in my case they werent).

The only time I ever do full out sprints is through deeply wooded sections of road where the only thing I could hit is a deer (which would make me badass imo, haha).*

So I have gatherred that if I upgrade to a DuraAce lockring, tighten my cog with a chainwhip, tighten my lockring with a proper tool, sprint up some big hills then retighten my lockring I should be able to save the money of upgrading a hub? Awesome.

Thanks for all of the answers guys. Much appreciated.
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Old 12-12-11, 09:55 PM
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Did you ever say what brand of cog you were using? Coudl the cog have been an issue?


Tom
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Old 12-12-11, 10:42 PM
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Lockring does not help a freewheel.
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Old 12-12-11, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Anthropy View Post
Did you ever say what brand of cog you were using? Coudl the cog have been an issue?


Tom
Nope I did not. The cog came with a cheap trackwheel I bought off craigslist. The threads on it look unharmed. One thing that I forgot to post is that I used a washer between the lockring and cog simply because the washer came with the lockring. This may have moved the lockring closer to the edge of the threads which made the stripping easier. Either way I had my LBS order me a DuraAce lockring.
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Old 12-13-11, 12:21 AM
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Mostly this thread is correct. Specifically that bit about avoiding formula lockrings is true. I don't have enough chemistry under my belt to posit why, but any cheap steel no-name lockrings I've used have sufficed. My open pros came with an AL formula lockring which I assumed would be better than whatever no name ring came stock on my Madison. I felt it move the second night riding the new wheelset and picked up a Surly Lockring the next day (no DA in stock and it looked pretty beefy).

As an aside, I'd ignore whatever Jaytron posted, because I've never seen anything but useless gifs and secondhand (aka hearsay) info from him. Vincentle is probably wrong too (really dude, tedshredding is your suggestion?), but at least hes bringing some experience to bear and trying, so I give him more credit than most of the posters here who consider their bikes fashion accessories.
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Old 12-13-11, 06:55 AM
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Jaytron is usually helpful and when he doesn't actually know something he says so. Don't knock somebody just for posting gifs. On this forum, you basically have to.
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