chelsearoffles

hey. i know you all have seen a million 'clockwork v. kilo tt' posts. and i've read them all for the most part. however; my question which one is the better one for simply getting it and going, without having to replace parts? especially the more expensive parts.

i've read that the clockwork is pretty solid, maybe just the pedals are a more immediate thing to change out.

however, i've read that the kilo is a better bike all around, but the wheels need changing, as well as a few more things.

i need whichever one is more ready to go. i am not going to have a lot to dish out on upgrading parts right away. (ps, i love bikes direct for having a 43cm frame. hah. i'm so short.)

Jaytron

Are you planning to ride it fixed or SS? If SS I'd probably go with the CW since it has both brakes. If fixed, then Kilo TT

Stezzy

my friend rides a clockwork not bad. other buddy rides a kilo tt tires blew out and his rear hub exploded at like 700 miles, not a bad bike tho. i ride a "the hour" i like it, rode 1500+ on the stock wheel set and tires, replaced the pedals after about 3 months went clipless. all in all decent bikes.

chelsearoffles

i will probably do SS, at least for the first few months. never ridden fixed. although, if the kilo was better equipped with parts that i wouldn't need to change out right away than the clockwork, i'd go fixed a go.

TejanoTrackie 

The Motobecane Messenger is also available in a 43cm frame size singlespeed and also in pink for the same $299.95 price as the Clockwork.

https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...essenger_x.htm

chelsearoffles

yeah, i looked at the motobecane for a minute (absolutely not in pink, haha). i had read some better things about the clockwork though (better wheels, namely), which is what eliminated the motobecane for me.

as far as sizes go. i went into my LBS and tried a 47cm. it was a tight fit, but my feet touched the ground and there was a litttttttttle bit of room for me to lift. however, the guy working told me to get a 43cm. i don't know if there is such a difference in those two sizes, but i was kind of confused. because i've always heard you should have just near an inch of space between you and the top bar/be able to lift the frame about an inch off the ground for that to be the proper size. i mean, i'm short. i am about 5'1'' and have short legs. it was just weird, because the 47cm wasn't too bad.

Jaytron

Keep in mind also that the Kilo sizing is measured differently than bikes usually are. Their seat tubes are measured C-C, rather than C-T. Basically you should use a fitment calculator: https://www.competitivecyclist.com/za...LCULATOR_INTRO to make sure you can get the exact size you need based on the bike's dimensions.

redpear

Cursed be the bike shop that sizes you on standover.
All about the top tube length. Where's jaytron at?

EDIT: wat.

Jaytron

chelsearoffles

yeah, i read about that. which is why i would have felt solid about getting the 44. because that would be around 47, which i felt comfortable with in the store. if i did a 43 in any other bike, i just feel like it would be a lot smaller than what i tried. but maybe it's not such a huge difference and i'm being silly.

TejanoTrackie 

The important measurement is top tube length, not standover. If you are 5'-1" but can standover a 47cm frame, then you probably have a short torso relative to your legs, as do most women, and need a relatively short top tube. The reason to get a 43cm .vs. a 47cm is the shorter top tube, not the standover. You need to ride the bike rather than stand over it to figure this out. My guess is that the 43cm frames would be a better fit for you. As to the Clockwork having better wheels than the Messenger, that used to be the case but no longer is. They now ship with the same lower quality Formula hubs.

chelsearoffles

ahh, thanks. i am a short little person, so i guess that would make a lot of sense. he never really said any of that to me. he just asked me to lift it, and i could. and he said "nah, just get a 43". hah. but that was some helpful info!

so, in your opinion, is the moto or windsor a better bike with parts that would not need immediate changing over the other bike? i've read a bunch of reviews, and the wheels were the only thing that turned me to the windsor over the moto. (the crankset seems to be the only real difference in the specs i see) i've also heard the windsor stem is something that would maybe need to be changed soon after buying, never heard anything about the moto.

sorry for all the questions. i really don't mean to sound like a dumb girl trying to buy a decent bike and not knowing anything (almost happened. almost bought a SE draft lite or something because it was cheap and red..then i immediately realized there was more to it than that, hah). most of these forums just talk about those things (46T v. 48T crankset) as if everyone already knows :/

Jandro 

Also, keep in mind that below ~50cm, frame geometry changes not-insignificantly, causing generic 48,47,43cm, etc measurements to be less telling of the actual fit of the bike.

As most have said, use the link Jaytron provided for actual tube lengths that will work for you, rather than a single 'fit' number.

EDIT: I should mention that I helped a friend who was 5'2 find a bike; it wasn't easy. I'm pretty surprised at the bike industry's utter lack of female-oriented/sized options.

hairnet

It is harder to get those small sizes without jacked geometery or going to 650c wheels while keeping the traditional horizontal top tube. OP might not have such a hard time finding a new road bike because compact frame designs allow for a wider fit range per size. Unfortunately almost no SSFG bikes are compact frames except maybe the Langster, which everyone hates.

TejanoTrackie 

I am also a short person, male and 5'-3". I can ride a 49cm frame fine with the top tube length being suitable, but can't stand over many of my frames. The 49cm frames that have proper geometry also have some toe overlap with the front wheel. There really is no difference in quality between the Windsor and the Motobecane. I have a Motobecane, and I chose it over the Windsor because it had shorter 165mm cranks than the Windsor with 170mm. Neither have particularly good hubs, but they are serviceable. The same can be said of other components, such as the headset, pedals and saddles. Also, the stock gearing is too high, so you'd probably want to change the freewheel. Both those bikes are equipped as single speeds, but can be converted to a fixed gear by installing a fixed cog and lockring on the other side of the hub and flipping the wheel. Ideally, you should ride a bike with 650c wheels, and you might consider the Fuji track bike that comes with 650c wheels in the 43cm size. There is a short female (misskaz) on this forum that has one and might chime in here with more info. I have a Wabi Lightning with 650c wheels that is super lightweight and excellent quality, but its $900 price might be outside your range >>> https://www.wabicycles.com/lightning_bike_spec_650.html

chelsearoffles

thanks for all the info. i ended up just ordering the windsor clockwork in a 43cm. figured that was the one i kept going back to. hopefully it'll all work out. i don't need a bike for any crazy biking. i'm just trying to eliminate my car out of my daily life and bike to work/classes. work is only 3 miles each way, if that.
also, what do you mean by the stock gearing is too high? (sorry. i really don't have a huge background knowledge in all this. i literally don't know what that means. something i have to replace? would it be something that needs to be done right away?)
and also, you are saying that i would have to buy new wheels? again, right away?

TejanoTrackie 

The bike has only one gear, so you can't shift to a lower easier gear when going up a hill or riding into a strong headwind. Also, when starting off from a stop, the gearing has to be low enough that you can get moving without too much effort. Imagine starting your car from a stop in third gear. You'd probably stall the engine unless you reved it way up and slipped the clutch a lot. So the gear on a singlespeed has to be a compromise between a low enough gear to handle those situations and a high enough gear that you can go a reasonable speed without having to pedal really fast. The stock gearing on the Windsor is higher than most people, myself included, find acceptable and many other better brands of singlespeed bikes come geared much lower. For example, I have a Salsa Casseroll that came with an 18 tooth freewheel instead of the 16 tooth that you'll get on the Windsor. If your ride is flat and not windy you may find the stock gearing acceptable, but can easily change to a 17 or 18 tooth freewheel for about $25. As to the wheels, you don't need to change them, but be forwarned that wheels will need truing and the hub bearings will need adjustment. You will most likely need to take it to a bike shop to get it properly assembled and adjusted.

redpear

No. You need a new cog or freewheel.

If you're running SS, get a new freewheel with more teeth. 17t sounds good.
If you're running fixed, get a new cog with more teeth. 17t or 18t sounds good.

chelsearoffles

awesome, thank you for being so helpful. yeah, pretty much the entire area i live around is flat for the most part - at least my route to and from work and most of the places i'd want to get on bike. maybe i'll try it out for a few days to see how it is, and possibly switch out to a 17t.

my plan was to just take the box straight to the bike shop right down the street. (although, as soon as i told them i was getting a bike online and not at their shop, they seemed must less interested in trying to help me find my right bike size..haha.) i really don't know how to put a bike together. but maybe it would be worth it to do as much as i can on my own, then bring it there for the rest?

thanks so much for all the info and help. hopefully everything will be good for now. maybe as each pay day comes, i can take care of some smaller items (ie, changing that gear to a 17t, maybe some new pedals, etc.) i used to ride a mountain bike my neighbor got me where i literally had to jump off it while i was still moving because i was too short to reach the ground/dismount in any kind of normal way, haha. so i don't think i'm going to be super picky right now. but i would like to have the right things going on.

redpear

Yikes, making an LBS build your online-purchased bike.

If you're going to have them do it, might as well have them do all of it.

chelsearoffles

well maybe if they had any option for any kind of bike for less than $900, i would consider buying there. (just kidding, sort of. i know they have better stuff than BD). also, when i talked to them about my frame size being a 43cm, they basically told me there was nothing they could do for me, ie, no ordering a frame in for me, etc.

all fine, no biggie. but i feel not so bad about going the route i did. but now you are making me feel guilty. hah.

redpear

Well, as long as you don't expect any lifetime coverage or warranty for their labor, I wouldn't worry. You still are giving them business, and if they couldn't help you get the right bike, that's their loss. They're probably actually lucky you're paying them to assemble the bike.

At any rate, I recommended that you should have them do all of it since at least you can guarantee it's done by a professional.

Between you and me, it sounds like your LBS isn't all that great. Maybe take your business elsewhere.

muckymucky

you guys writing novels in here?

Jaytron

I agree, there must be a ton of LBS's around your area. Depending on where you are I guess. SF is ridiculous, you can find 2 or 3 on the same street.

chelsearoffles

unfortunately, not the case here. there is one around here. and they are in the heart of hipstertown, so it's more or less, really 'cool' looking stuff that is overpriced, than real knowledge and help. they aren't terrible. one dude who works there is awesome. but it's just not what it could be. the only other LBS that used to be around here was 25 minutes away and closed. i don't even live in a small area. there really should be more.