Peugeot or Astro-Daimler?
 

I've got two old ten speeds, a Peugeot and an Astro-Daimler SE. They're both about the same size and have components that seem to be about the same quality, with the peugeot being in alittle bettter shape, although it does have cottered cranks, while the AD has the modern style (non-cottered?). I'm thinking about converting one of them into a singlespeed (I'm planning on doing some sort of $10 conversion), but can't decide which one. Does anyone know anything about Astro-Daimler bikes? I'm sure that the best advice for me would be to use the frame I like best, but I was wondering if anyone had any advice either way. Thanks.

-Will

http://sheldonbrown.com/vrbn-a-f.html#austro-daimler

i think that a-d's have more rarity value, if that makes any difference

If the Peugeot has cottered cranks, it is likely French threaded. However, the standard headsets and bottom brackets on these bikes are tanks and hard to wear out, so if the bearing races are in good shape, you're likely okay.


The AD will likely be less of a hassle. French bikes present a unique set of challenges. I've converted two old Peugeots to fixed gear, including one very like yours (with cottered cranks, you likely have either an AO/UO/UE8 or a PA10), and love them dearly, but must admidt their hassle factor is high if you aren't real used to dealing with them.

To give you an idea-- if you use the Peugeot, get rid of the cottered cranks and steel rims (Any Peugeot with cottered cranks had steel rims stock, see if they've been replaced). When you do this, you will need to replace the spindle on the bottom bracket-- if you get Japanese cranks, get a spindle for JIS cranks and Italian bikes. These are marked with a 5 instead of a 3... you must do this because the cups on the Peugeot are thin walled.

My 2 cents?

With the help of the all-knowing Poguemahone ^, we converted my Peugeot into a fixed. Was fun and somewhat easy. Ran into a few road blocks, but thats normal I guess. Yeah, the BB and crank set up might be a pain. I have the JIS cranks and found the whole BB setup an ordeal. It was worth it though.

so... is there a way to tell the model number or vintage of a peugeot?

when i rescued it, it initially had what looked like a mount for a light driven by a generator, and the shifters were simplex, bolted on though it had braze-ons for the cable guides. it has a faded checkerboard pattern, and looking at this link it seems the early 80s is around the timeframe it was built, but i'd love to know its provenance.

it's also blue, if that helps to identify it. none of the dutch ones on that site are blue, so i get the feeling it is some kind of mutant...

i think there's a serial number on it, but not sure if there's a registry of these anywhere...

I got this link...
http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Fra...10_history.htm

Look under the BB cup. I bet if you find the # and post it, someone will tell you roughly what time period it was made

Aha!

quick googling gives me:

http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-58983

my sn is a 7 digit number, and has 'ph 10 s 54' as a model number. ??? it is stickered on, instead of stamped.

from the 70s?

"Peugeots built in France during the 1980's can be dated by year through use of their serial numbers. Following a letter prefix, typically Y or B, the first number of the numeral code indicates the bicycle's model year (ex. PKN-10 #B 0667631, built in 1980). Track bicycles, at least, appeared to have their numbers stamped on the left rear dropout."

Source= think's link above.

I'm not sure when they started putting the numbers on the sticker. I've two bikes I've pretty well dated to 1973, with the serial#s on a plate, and one from 76, two more from 79/80, another from 84, all stickered. The PH designation places your bike solidly in the eighties, though. Don't think it was used prior to that.

Check your bottom bracket; if it's English thread, it's definitely 80s. If it's French,
70s or before. Swiss, late seventies early 80's. Swiss is the same as French, only reverse threaded on the fixed cup.

Where do you get parts for your 12 speed Peugeot? I have a 12 speed Peugeot and need help w/my rear
derailleur (Simplex 610) Thanks for your help. Fred Castro

You said you wanted to go cheap so...
I've got a lejeune road bike I converted a little bit ago and I didn't replace the cottered dranks. This is because I'm cheap. Eventually I'll change out the BB for a short taper one, mainly so I can use lighter aluminum cranks and have a better selection of chainrings. But for now, the cottered cranks are working just fine. the only real problem with the BB/cranks is french thread pedals but I've got them so no biggie. According to harris cyclery (in an email) the Italian sized japanese made spindles aren't being made and so they'll become rarer until they run out. At that point there's still some options so don't worry about it, but It'll get more expensive.

Your bigger problem (in terms of going cheap) is going to be that if you have a french bike, chances are your rear hub has a french thread freewheel and won't take a standard track cog. Around here you can pick us a decent used wheel at the LBS for about $40 for a freewheel hub 27" alloy. So, you say, maybe you should use the A-D. Well, I've got a steyr that says 'made in austria' on the head set, 'made in germany' stamped on to the rear brake mount, and a french thread rear hub. I asked around a little and someone said alot of european bikes have had french parts over the years. It's possible that someone switched the rear wheel at some point but who knows? Anyway, that may be a problem so watch out you don't try to force a track cog onto one of these hubs, screwing it up.

As for which bike you should convert, I can't answer that. Around here, you could pick up a beater 10speed for as much as you'd spend on that standard thread used wheel or new hub, then you could get away with loctiting a trackcog on ghetto style. It's gonna cost you more than ten bucks, but you might do it for 50 to 100.

Thanks everyone for the help. I realized that the reason I was having such a hard time finding anything out about the AD was that I kept searching "astro" instead of "austro". Doh! Anyway, after reading up on the AD's and hearing about potential problems w/ the Peugeot (cottered cranks, french threads), I think I'm going to plan on going with the Austro-Daimler. Also, both of the bikes were given to me, but the AD was my Dads, which gives it a little sentimental value.

One more question (for now): Does this bike probably have a free hub w/ a cassete that slides on, or will it be a free wheel assembly that comes off completely? And depending on what it is, can I just take off the rings I don't want and use some sort of spacers to but on the ring I do want to use? If you didn't notice, I'm new to SS's and haven't ever taken apart a rear wheel to know what to expect.

-Will

I'm new to SS's too, so I'll answer your question with another question (so somebody can set us both straight):

-wouldn't it be easier/better to use a new hub with a BMX cog, instead of using a disassembled freewheel cluster?

i am riding an austro-daimler sl that i converted to fixed, and i like it a lot even though it's technically too small for me.

the conversion itself was really quite simple, but if you decide to try to upgrade the headset, stem, or handlebars, you should know that the fork may be austrian threaded (26mm x 1mm). i ended up replacing the fork crown race and the bottom cup with a sealed bearing assembly (shimano 105), and keeping the top assembly (a campy knock-off with a bearing cage). replacing the bottom assembly did require filing the fork crown down. if your fork is austrian threaded, then you will also have problems replacing the stem or handlebars, since the austrian threaded headsets are like french threaded in that they require a 22.0 mm stem diameter. i got a nitto technomic, sanded it to 22.0, and then i had a proper clamp for iso bars. if your bike was made in the 80's you are probably ok.

unless the rear wheel has been replaced, you will have a thread on freewheel. i really only started working on my bike when i converted it, so i know nothing about what you can or can't do to a freewheel.

I figured it would be easier, but probably not cheaper. I just wonder how hard it is (or if its even possible) to modify the existing freewheel.

-Will

If it's a standard ISO (common) threaded rear hub it will be as easy as having the LBS take the existing freewheel cluster off, loctiting a track cog on, respacing, and redishing the wheel.
You'll absolutely have to pay for the freewheel removal (about $3 unless you can get them to do it for free) and a new track cog ($20ish for a dura ace). Oh, and a couple bucks for locktite. If you have a decent head on your shoulders for things technical you can respace and redish the wheel fairly easily.
On those freehub conversions you need a big stack of spacers where the other cogs would be and you need to open the free hub and make some 'adjustments' to lock out the freewheel function. That's not reccomended, but you wont have that problem anyway because if the AD was your father's it was likely built pre freehub.
If you're going to ride fixed forever, you might as well just prepare your self now for getting nickel and dimed for the rest of your life. suck it up and be prepared to spend some money. The caveat is that you'll probably spend less that if you were a bike junky with multispeed tastes.

"Your bigger problem (in terms of going cheap) is going to be that if you have a french bike, chances are your rear hub has a french thread freewheel and won't take a standard track cog."

Most all french bikes imported to the US during the bike boom used English threading for the freewheel, oddly enough, given French stubborness on other parts. Of the several French bikes I have, only the 1967 PX10 is threaded French on the freewheel. While you do find French freewheels on occasion, esp. on higher level and rarer French bikes, most French bikes in the US have English threading on the freewheel and will take a track cog no problem.

"Where do you get parts for your 12 speed Peugeot? I have a 12 speed Peugeot and need help w/my rear
derailleur (Simplex 610) Thanks for your help. Fred Castro"

Fred, I scavenge nearly everything, and have for years. You might try ebay; I find it a bit expensive, but everything pops up on it eventually.