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Cogs, I can't decide.

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Cogs, I can't decide.

Old 12-20-12, 02:26 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by bones_mcbones View Post
pretty easy to verify.
Thank you Captain Obvious.
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Old 12-20-12, 07:04 PM
  #27  
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I have used Surly, Soma, Eight Inch, EAI, Dura Ace, Miche, a few generic cogs, and possibly others. I have never noticed a real difference in terms of noise and smoothness. Whatever minor differences there are in tooth shape is quickly negated by a bit of wear.

In my experience, the amount and viscosity of the lube, cleanliness, and state of wear of the drivetrain have more impact on noise than the brand of cog. Also different different frames and rims transmit drive train noise differently. Don't trust anyone who anecdotally claims a particular cog is louder than another.

The Miche cog and carrier system is most unique among your choices. It is very nice if you ever change your gearing. Also, the cogs can be flipped around when they are worn, doubling the lifespan of the cog. Also, because you don't need to unthread the carrier, your hub threads are at less risk of being damaged. Its an easy, cost effective system worth considering.
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Old 12-20-12, 09:14 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by mihlbach View Post
I have used Surly, Soma, Eight Inch, EAI, Dura Ace, Miche, a few generic cogs, and possibly others. I have never noticed a real difference in terms of noise and smoothness. Whatever minor differences there are in tooth shape is quickly negated by a bit of wear.

In my experience, the amount and viscosity of the lube, cleanliness, and state of wear of the drivetrain have more impact on noise than the brand of cog. Also different different frames and rims transmit drive train noise differently. Don't trust anyone who anecdotally claims a particular cog is louder than another.

The Miche cog and carrier system is most unique among your choices. It is very nice if you ever change your gearing. Also, the cogs can be flipped around when they are worn, doubling the lifespan of the cog. Also, because you don't need to unthread the carrier, your hub threads are at less risk of being damaged. Its an easy, cost effective system worth considering.
i've considered the miche system in the past. i just don't change cogs ever. i've found the ratio i like. if i was spending more time at the track, i'm sure the miche system would really come in handy.

did you notice very much difference in your chainline with the different cogs?

i know drivetrain noise depends on a lot of other variables. but if you keep everything constant and change just the cog, that's a pretty good way to tell if one cog is louder than another. at least in how they interact with your particular setup. there must be a reason most people here prefer eai.
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Old 12-20-12, 09:56 PM
  #29  
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haven't heard it mentioned here yet...maybe EAI? i have tens of thousands of road miles on a few of the basic black machined ones, 'deluxe' i think they call em? totally a steal at the price...first rate materials and machining, what more do you want?
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Old 12-20-12, 10:05 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by dookie View Post
haven't heard it mentioned here yet...maybe EAI? i have tens of thousands of road miles on a few of the basic black machined ones, 'deluxe' i think they call em? totally a steal at the price...first rate materials and machining, what more do you want?
for it to be available at a lbs near me for a reasonable price.
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Old 12-20-12, 10:18 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by mihlbach View Post
The Miche cog and carrier system is most unique among your choices. It is very nice if you ever change your gearing. Also, the cogs can be flipped around when they are worn, doubling the lifespan of the cog. Also, because you don't need to unthread the carrier, your hub threads are at less risk of being damaged. Its an easy, cost effective system worth considering.
Sugino makes a similar system but it's not cheap (but it also comes with 3 cogs) https://www.benscycle.net/index.php?m...h=188_190_1066

i had not thought about the possibility of flipping the cogs on the carrier so they don't get "shark toothed". Good idea there.

why do neither miche nor sugino use square splines? are they stress-risers? seems odd to me.
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Old 12-20-12, 10:30 PM
  #32  
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That seems like a solution to a nonexistent problem.

It takes all of five minutes to change a cog.
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Old 12-20-12, 10:49 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Nagrom_ View Post
That seems like a solution to a nonexistent problem.

It takes all of five minutes to change a cog.
The cogs are a bit cheaper, it's a bit quicker to change a cog, and you wouldn't need a chain whip. None of these are big deals, but it makes things easier.

I've seen the White Industries system have issues with the lockring working loose, but it's easy to keep an eye on it.
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Old 12-21-12, 12:43 AM
  #34  
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I have used the white industries system and have had issues with the lockring coming loose. A bit of blue loctite on the lockring solved the problem. But my miche system, used with Dura Ace lockring, has worked flawlessly for years without loctite.
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Old 12-21-12, 12:50 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by plowmanjoe View Post

did you notice very much difference in your chainline with the different cogs
The cogs do vary in thickness but not by much more than a mm..well within the margin of your ability to measure chainline. I usa a mm spacer with some of the narrower cogs, but its mostly just a placebo to make me feel better.
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Old 12-21-12, 02:46 AM
  #36  
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Ive always used a Milwaukee cog and lockring on all my bikes, fixed freestyle and regular fixed, never slipped, stripped, or even made a noise even left hand drive. made in the Wisconsin by riders for riders 4140 heat treated
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Old 12-21-12, 11:33 AM
  #37  
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Ive been collecting EAI gold medals because I'm an idiot and I hate money.

I've had people tell me my drivetrain is loud but the chainline is straight and the cog was noticeably smoother than the cog I had on there before. It also sucks they don't make a 12T gold medal since I'm ocd about matchy match ****.

That's really as much of an opinion about a cog that it's possible to have.
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Old 12-21-12, 11:49 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by mihlbach View Post
Don't trust anyone who anecdotally claims a particular cog is louder than another.
Ultimate hogwash. I had a 17t Phil cog that was loud as all hell. Swapped it for for a 17t EAI Deluxe after only a few days of riding and it was very quiet. Same bike, chain, chainring and chain tension.

In my experience on my own bike and bikes I've worked on, Phil cogs are loud because the teeth are too long/pointy and "hook" the inside of chain links as they pass over it instead of allowing them to roll off smoothly - as seen in the attached comparison pics of an EAI and Phil cog of the same size:

Attached Images
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File Type: jpg
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Last edited by Scrodzilla; 12-21-12 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 12-21-12, 12:02 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Scrodzilla View Post
Ultimate hogwash. I had a 17t Phil cog that was loud as all hell. Swapped it for for a 17t EAI Deluxe after only a few days of riding and it was very quiet. Same chain, same chainring, same chain tension.

In my experience on my own bike and bikes I've worked on, Phil cogs are loud because the teeth are too long/pointy and "hook" the inside of chain links as they pass over it instead of allowing them to roll off smoothly.
Over the years I have read thousands of inconsistent comments about particular cogs being quiet or noisy. Most of this banter is probably related to other drive train variables, not brand of cog. I have tried most of the main ones, and haven't ever noticed a difference worth commenting on. To be clear, I have no doubt there are subtle differences in tooth shape and finish that effect how the cog interacts with the chain, but these differences should be quickly negated by wear. I have never tried a Phil cog, but I trust your judgement more than the average poster. Nonetheless, just because you found a Phil cog to be noisy, there are many more posts (pre 2009, when these things used to get discussed more) that report the opposite. I don't know what was up with your cog, but I find it hard to believe that Phil Wood would knowingly manufacture cogs with noisy, poorly designed teeth, unless there was a reason. I believe you when you say Phils are noisier that EAIs, but is this something that can be differentiated while on the bike, or just when you are whirring the chain around in your shop. If I buy a Phil cog will I have an equally ****ty experience with it?...possibly, but I kind of doubt it.

Last edited by mihlbach; 12-21-12 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 12-21-12, 12:26 PM
  #40  
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I can vouch that all dura ace cogs that I came contact with were pretty noisy (I've got one and 3 of my friends had them too) and as Scrod said when I and them changed to EAI/Soma the noise went away.
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Old 12-21-12, 12:32 PM
  #41  
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Somehow I think that the engineers at Shimano and Phil Wood are designing their cogs to meet goals other than quietness. Things like energy transfer and longevity come to mind.
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Old 12-21-12, 01:07 PM
  #42  
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If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
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Old 12-21-12, 01:30 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by prooftheory View Post
Somehow I think that the engineers at Shimano and Phil Wood are designing their cogs to meet goals other than quietness. Things like energy transfer and longevity come to mind.
Until you ask them, you'll never know.

It doesn't take a degree in astrophysics to figure out that a quiet drivetrain has less friction between its moving parts - and is more efficient as a result.

Last edited by Scrodzilla; 12-21-12 at 01:50 PM. Reason: derp
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Old 12-21-12, 01:33 PM
  #44  
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My DA cogs are silent.

Think you gotta break em in... you know, like every other part of the drive train...?
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Old 12-21-12, 01:49 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Scrodzilla View Post
It doesn't take a degree in astrophysics to see that a figure out that a quiet drivetrain has less friction between its moving parts - and is more efficient as a result.
Good luck using this argument on SRAM fanboys. Their road bike drivetrains are noisy and rough as frick, but their users seem to be clueless to it.
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Old 12-21-12, 01:53 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Scrodzilla View Post
It doesn't take a degree in astrophysics to figure out that a quiet drivetrain has less friction between its moving parts - and is more efficient as a result.

I don't think a degree in astrophysics would help you conclude anything about a bicycle drive train.

Unless we're talking about space cogs.


must be talking about space cogs.
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Old 12-21-12, 01:55 PM
  #47  
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Stop it, man...before you've got me performing Rockwell hardness tests on everything in the shop.
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Old 12-21-12, 01:56 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Scrodzilla View Post
Stop it, man...before you've got me performing Rockwell hardness tests on everything in the shop.
How else would you know what they're made of?
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Old 12-21-12, 01:57 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by BoSoxYacht View Post
Good luck using this argument on SRAM fanboys. Their road bike drivetrains are noisy and rough as frick, but their users seem to be clueless to it.
There's a difference between "parts rubbing" noise, and snappy shifting.

Also, campy sucks.
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Old 12-21-12, 01:58 PM
  #50  
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They called it "San Dee-ah-go". Let's just agree to disagree. The chainring, chain, lube, tension, etc. will all have some impact.

All of these arguments could be summed up by "YMMV".
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