jowilson

Does anyone make a FG chain tensioner for semi-horizontal dropouts? Some old steel frames have built in ones, but not mine, and I'd like to get a pair. I'm feeling pretty left out with my skinny, flimsy, Raleigh three-speed dropouts:

Dannihilator

Surly makes one.

TejanoTrackie 

Those are not track ends. The Surly Tuggnut won't work.

Edit. Never mind. I see they make the Hurdy Gurdy, that should work for semi-horizontal dropouts:

jowilson

will it rest properly and safely against the back of the dropout? The dropout is made of about 1/8" wide metal, maybe even 3/32" wide. And where does the screw screw into? Will it chew up the metal?

josh

TejanoTrackie 

I have no idea, since I've never used one. I was just responding to Dan's post. I don't bother with tensioners on any of my bikes.

hueyhoolihan

shouldn't really need them. just pull the wheel back, straighten it up and crank down the nuts.

OTOH, i've got those expensive ones on my frames with track-ends. don't know if i really need them though. kind of a PITA when fixing a flat.

Dannihilator

I'm running a tensioner because of the dingle setup. When I get back to single, tensioner goes away.

europa

I investigated these recently for my Europa which has always suffered wheel slip with skewers. The solution proved to be getting the dropouts aligned properly ... which I was lucky enough to do accidentally while cold setting the frame (they had probably never been right before that) and finding a old Mavic, steel, internally geared quick release skewer.

During her fg days, she always had a nutted rear axle and I never had a problem with slippage, it was only with skewers regardless of what sized hub I'd squeezed in there, even the wheel she came with when new gave me trouble.

So my advice, visit Sheldon Brown's website and check the alignment of your dropouts - if they aren't parallel, it'll be hard to prevent a wheel from slipping.

Dannihilator

For ease of setting tension on the road.

jowilson

I've been doing fine without them for several months, but after helping a friend adjust his FG chain tension with chain tensioners (it has track ends, however), I realized how much easier it is to set the tension with them. Like I said, I can adjust tension fine without them, but I think it'd be a lot easier with them. They also are somewhat safer, as they prevent the wheel from slipping out of the dropouts.

Josh

europa

Are you talking nutted axles or skewers?
If nutted, getting the tension right is just a matter of walking the wheel back as per good ol' Sheldon Brown. Easy and safe and, I would suggest, safer than relying on yet another gadget in there to go wrong.

If skewers, well, I'm learning not to like them very much (actually, it's more a case of all my misconceptions being confirmed).

jowilson

Nutted axles, of course. I'd never feel safe using skewers on a fixie, especially without track ends.

TejanoTrackie 

Quick releases are fine as long as they are the old internal cam type with a steel nut at the other end. These were used for decades on geared road bikes with semi-horizontal dropouts like yours w/o any problems, and I'm using them on one of my FG bikes (Soma Rush) with track ends.

europa

Back in the old days they were fine ... provided you had good ones. Nowadays, it's even harder to get the good, old style. Modern ones are pretty much useless.

It also depends on whether your dropouts are parallel to each other or not. My Europa (bought new in the 80s) has always given me trouble with a slipping rear wheel ... and naturally, she came with one of the old style, steel skewers. Now that she's running 9 speed gears and I've decided she always will, I've got sick of springing the hub into the dropouts (also a source of non parallel dropouts you'd think), I decided to take a deep breath and cold set the rear end. Did it and magically got the dropouts parallel at the same time - no, I don't have the funny tools but where previously, the wheel always wanted to sit crooked, now the wheel snaps straight into the dead straight position, even with a skewer and, surprise surprise, no more hassles with a slipping rear wheel. I reckon she's been wrong since birth.

Simple test. Using a wheel with a nutted axle, slide it in and tighten ONE nut. If things are lined up properly at the back, the wheel should be pretty much straight. Do the same with the other side. I'm sure this isn't as definitive as using the proper tools, but it's a good first test for the home tinkerer.

jowilson

I'll try that later today. Thanks. So if the dropouts turn out not to be aligned properly, do I just bend them into alignment with anything? Or does it require special tools?

TejanoTrackie 

Those dropouts are thin and probably not castings, so you should be able to bend them with a large crescent wrench. I've done that on several cheap steel frames like yours w/o any problems.

europa

Check it out on Sheldon Brown's site, he tells you how to do it. He also shows you the correct tools for testing the alignment, just so you know what corners you're cutting

jowilson

So my dropouts were bent but not misaligned, if that makes any sense. I built up the rear wheel yesterday (did I tell you I destroyed the rear hub?) and installed it without a problem. One minor thing is that this bike has 114mm spacing and I have to pull the dropouts apart a little to get the wheel in. I tightened one axle nut and the wheel went straight into the centered position. Thanks for all the help guys!