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SART homeless tents

Old 11-10-15, 12:50 PM
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SART homeless tents

Maybe a month ago or so, I rode the SART from the beach to Katella and back on a Saturday. Didn't see Fred and Gina. But I was a little disturbed by the homeless tent encampments along the SART.

By disturbed, I mean in a compassionate way. I'm sure we all have seen the homeless at the Katella underpass. The police would chase them out and they would come back gradually.

Just got a message that the O.C. Board of Supervisors are voting on a facility in Anaheim to help with the homeless situation.

[County Supervisors are preparing to vote on the 1000 N. Kraemer location in Anaheim for the placement of a Multi-Service Center that will provide not only emergency beds but also coordinated assessment and a continuum of care. Persons struggling with homelessness need centers like this one to be directed to the right resources at the right time.

The County’s own presentation on the issue presented the following statistics on homelessness, which has increased by 5% in the last couple of years:

4,452 homeless were identified in shelters and on the streets on one night in January 2015. Based on survey data on length and occurrence of homelessness, this equates to 15,291 persons that become homeless over a 12 month period. Families with children represent 31% of the homeless population (451 households with an estimated 1,379 adults and their children). Veterans represent 12% of all homeless in Orange County.]
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Old 11-10-15, 01:18 PM
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Better to be homeless here than in one of the flyover states.
The Colorado Springs public library had a uniformed police officer walking around tapping the homeless on the shoulder for sleeping. They'd pretend to be reading, so they could stay inside and avoid dying in sub-freezing temperatures.
Seems every major city has been involved in at least one "exporting their homeless" scandal.
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Old 11-10-15, 02:39 PM
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OK, we rode through Sunday and there was a homeless bike repair shop... with a sign!... under one of the bridges just past the big A.
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Old 11-10-15, 03:57 PM
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Because of our weather we are a magnet for the homeless, let's not make it any easier please. LA used to have "skid row", now it's 50+ square blocks. Venice beach used to be a nice place to visit or live, now it's a cesspool.

I know this is unpopular with the feel goods, but if you feed a stray cat, you'll just get more stray cats. Then you have to deal with the fighting, pissing and ****ting all over the place and eventually you have to move, so encourage the homeless to live elsewhere, please.
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Old 11-10-15, 04:18 PM
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Ah well, glad at least I'm not one of the feel bads.
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Old 11-10-15, 10:36 PM
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There's compassion.
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Old 11-10-15, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by HBCruiser1
Because of our weather we are a magnet for the homeless, .......
You may be correct. But how powerful of a magnet do you think your weather is? I've lived in the Midwest most of my life and never once known or even heard of someone who went west... to become an urban outdoorsman. I really thought the left coast was producing homeless.... locally.
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Old 11-10-15, 11:06 PM
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California is one of the few states that accepts people from all over the country/world without turning up our noses at "out-of-towners" coming here to take jobs. We even allow Midwesterners here. You can even bring your recliner.
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Old 11-10-15, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter
You may be correct. But how powerful of a magnet do you think your weather is? I've lived in the Midwest most of my life and never once known or even heard of someone who went west... to become an urban outdoorsman. I really thought the left coast was producing homeless.... locally.
Maybe you weren't sampling the right population. Here in homelessness ground zero (our tiny city has more homeless people than Orange County), I meet a great many homeless people from the flyover states. I don't meet many from SoCal, so maybe they keep their own, but we have them from everywhere else in abundance.
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Old 11-10-15, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by trailangel
...... We even allow Midwesterners here. You can even bring your recliner.
Nice to know! Every winter I inform my wife I am ready to snow-bird. Recently she suggested I plan a winter cycling get-a-way instead. With grandkids popping up like smack-a-mole's.... a winter escape may be my only option.

Originally Posted by B. Carfree
Maybe you weren't sampling the right population........ I meet a great many homeless people from the flyover states. I don't meet many from SoCal.......... but we have them from everywhere else in abundance.
Well we do have those who disappear (run to avoid outstanding warrants). As long as they avoid trouble with local police... they will remain free to do as they wish. I'd guess Florida's weather is "the magnet" that attracts the SoCal population.
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Old 11-11-15, 12:38 AM
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Our neighborhood is on the SART and we all had fliers on our doors a few weeks back about this. Apparently there's some big meeting everybody is invited to so that we can "pull together" and make sure the homeless don't gather near us. NIMBY at work I guess. I tossed it in the bin.
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Old 11-11-15, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by jmX
Our neighborhood is on the SART and we all had fliers on our doors a few weeks back about this. ....... NIMBY at work I guess.
You should go to the meeting. I don't think people are truly aware of the dynamics involved with the homeless. The true free and happy-go-lucky urban outdoorsman (attracted to the SoCal weather?!?!?) is a very rare breed (or complete myth). Most need our help.

The drug addicted are in a hopeless downward spiral with death as the typical end.
The criminals are avoiding punishment... and wasting away the only life they have.
The mentally ill need medical help.
The unemployable illiterate need education and special training.

These settlements aren't just an eyesore. They are a shame on the people in the community that allow this to happen to other human beings!
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Old 11-11-15, 01:20 AM
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Originally Posted by calamarichris
..... The Colorado Springs public library had a uniformed police officer walking around tapping the homeless on the shoulder for sleeping.
Public Library? A wonderful old term. Around here.... people download reading materials more and more all the time. Many of the old county financed Public Libraries have been closed.

Last time I visited the local one I had used most... it was a shell of it's old self. Lots of "floor space" had been created for "children's programs". And then there was maybe 8 PC's for shabbily dressed old men to view porn. It was pretty sad.

But I was able to order-in (delivered from the downtown depository) a cycling book. I was given the customary 14 days to read and return the book. I think Ben Franklin's (public library) idea was a good one.... but it's time has passed. Mostly (like in Colorado Springs) they've become pricey Public Restrooms with old fashioned reading materials and free on-line porn.

I am currently reading "the Hungry Cyclist". A book about a cyclist touring north and south America seeking excellent local foods. I downloaded it to my phone.

Last edited by Dave Cutter; 11-11-15 at 01:24 AM.
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Old 11-11-15, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter
I think Ben Franklin's (public library) idea was a good one.... but it's time has passed. Mostly (like in Colorado Springs) they've become pricey Public Restrooms with old fashioned reading materials and free on-line porn.
Maybe where you live, but not in many places in the country. I have travelled by bike in many areas where even small town libraries are quite popular. Not everyone has easy Internet access or even cable TV. Try dowloading a book somewhere like Twin Bridges, MT. Even mid-sized cities have very popular public libraries. Try getting a computer at the Rapid City SD or Missoula, MT libraries on a Saturday afternoon. Not surprisingly, those facilities are quite impressive. Even in big cities there are many people who use libraries not only for computer access but to--gasp--borrow books. My GF borrows numerous books every year. The main library in Philadelphia also serves as a venue for presentations and reading by authors. Citizens and organizations may also use rooms for meetings and presentations. A few years ago, the President of Adventure Cycling Association had a presentation there.

Try getting out of your recliner more often.
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Old 11-11-15, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by B. Carfree
Maybe you weren't sampling the right population. Here in homelessness ground zero (our tiny city has more homeless people than Orange County), I meet a great many homeless people from the flyover states. I don't meet many from SoCal, so maybe they keep their own, but we have them from everywhere else in abundance.
Try Hawaii

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Old 11-11-15, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
......I have travelled by bike in many areas where even small town libraries are quite popular. Not everyone has easy Internet access or even cable TV.
I am sorry! I know that there are many Luddites (and maybe library workers) that are active on some of these forums. I didn't mean to offend any. You may be correct about some people not having modern conveniences. But it is by choice. People have been cutting the cable for more modern ways... for YEARS now.

We can't hold back an entire society to nurse the fears of a handful of Luddites who are too afraid of what the future might look like.

How many MILLIONS of children must live is homeless filth.... before your compassion is stirred to where you want to help. When does the seemingly emotionless say.... this must end?

Originally Posted by indyfabz
Try getting out of your recliner more often.
Cute. You know.... cute like an old an unimaginative knock-knock joke. I do "get out" a lot. I don't see the world from the eyes of outdated memories and "stories" of other places. Change is upon us! You of course can continue turn your back and deny modern reality. I can't.

If you think that "getting out" and seeing more homeless suffering would be a good way to harden my heart to the human pain. I think you're wrong.

Last edited by Dave Cutter; 11-11-15 at 08:37 AM.
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Old 11-11-15, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter
I am sorry! I know that there are many Luddites (and maybe library workers) that are active on some of these forums. I didn't mean to offend any. You may be correct about some people not having modern conveniences. But it is by choice. People have been cutting the cable for more modern ways... for YEARS now.

We can't hold back an entire society to nurse the fears of a handful of Luddites who are too afraid of what the future might look like.

How many MILLIONS of children must live is homeless filth.... before your compassion is stirred to where you want to help. When does the seemingly emotionless say.... this must end?
The library in my city is used by homeless and others without smartphones and internet. A lot of companies will only accept online applications.

Not all homeless people are the stereotypical filthy addict/drunk pushing a shopping cart. Some people lost their place to live and can't come up with first and last month's rent for an apartment. I live in a ghetto and a 1 BR apartment down the street is $1600/month.
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Old 11-11-15, 11:10 AM
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I foresee more homeless tents along all the river trails. At the mouth of the L.A. river in Long Beach, there's been a lot for years. Its going to be one of those "unintended consequences" when the L.A. river goes for a massive improvement costing many millions. Those tents will be pushed out and reshuffled into a different area.

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Old 11-11-15, 11:36 AM
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It's a sad problem. I try to help sometimes by giving them some money. But I suspect that most just buy a bottle of booze instead of food. Some you cannot help,...they are mentally ill. Once my wife gave a homeless woman a sandwich and the woman shredded the sandwich and tossed it. Sometimes they won't accept help.
We've got some homeless camps here along the Arroyo.. along the 110 Freeway, and the cops let them stay... until one of them came out on the street and pulled a knife on somebody because they wouldn't give them a cigarette. Then city came with trucks and pushed them down the river to Los Angeles and cleaned up after them.
Then you have the weirdos going into the homeless camps to have sex with these people. I've seen some stuff....
Usually I smell a strong oder of paint or model airplane glue when I ride by....
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Old 11-11-15, 11:44 AM
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As someone who has been involved in programs servicing the homeless, I can tell you there is no real good solution. You can throw as much money as you want into programs or services, and for a few, who are temporarily homeless, it helps, but for those who suffer from chronic mental illness, it's like throwing salt on a wound.

What we forget is years ago, mental illness was treated differently. People were usually constricted to facilities and not let out on the streets. But with tight budgets and loosening of laws, the homeless are allowed to do what they want... many who are paranoid shizophrenic (I got involved through a relative who had this disease), will not allow themselves to be restricted to facilities; it is like "trapping" them...

Anyway, I can write a book on my experiences (and in fact, am...) but for now, if you care, bring down some sandwiches, old clothes or blankets. Or work with good organizations, like Salvation Army (give them the money; do not give it to a homeless person), that care for the homeless. This is a problem that will continue to escalate as long as the homeless (ie mentally ill in most cases) have rights and can remain on the streets...

PS: If you want to see what being a sanctuary city for the homeless is like, drive through downtown LA at night. Every street is lined with sleeping bags, boxes and bodies and rats... lots and lots of rats... I understand compassion for these folks, but it really is creating a problem for everyone else.
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Old 11-11-15, 12:12 PM
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What Pam said. I have an uncle who can't help himself. He is not homeless only because he does have a good pension from his working days, the rest of our family intervened and we finally got the county where he lives (he is not local to us) to go to court to be appointed conservator. This process took two years from when we first got involved. We tried helping at first with money, but that didn't work. Without our initiating, pushing and following up, the conservatorship would never have happened.

I appreciate that it is legally difficult to take over someone's life, even if it is for their own good. But perhaps we've gone too far in the other direction? At what point do you invoke the power of the law over a person who is allegedly mentally ill? How do you measure mental illness? What if they are not mentally ill but homeless by choice? And what if these people have children? When can the power of the state be invoked to take the kids away? And if it is too easy, this power be abused to the detriment of citizens.

For those who are simply down on their luck and need some help getting started again, the problem is easier. But I suspect this is a small minority, as these types of people are already trying to improve their lot and taking advantage of what services are available to them.

And it does create problems for the rest of us, and we have rights too. There are no easy solutions. We need to be mindful of civil rights but demanding unlimited tolerance of the situation isn't acceptable either.
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Old 11-11-15, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by GP
The library in my city is used by homeless and others without smartphones and internet.
Just because I can't imagine why (on Earth) anyone would turn down the free government smartphone.... doesn't mean they don't. Android tablets that cost nearly nothing can connect to the Web almost anywhere there are fast food restaurants and/or coffee shops, retail stores, etc.. We don't need millions of dollars of book inventories.... just so the homeless have a place to pee.

It is crazy to employ well educated and decently (or even highly) paid librarians and archivist..... to direct the homeless to the men's room.

Preserving obsolete infrastructure adds extra costs and tax burdens that stifle the very economic growth that provides the needed jobs.

Originally Posted by GP
Not all homeless people are the stereotypical filthy addict/drunk pushing a shopping cart. Some people lost their place to live and can't come up with first and last month's rent for an apartment. I live in a ghetto and a 1 BR apartment down the street is $1600/month.
I don't know what your... or anyone's situation is. I am not even sure what is considered "stereotypical". We will always have our poor. But it is way too easy for people to fall between the cracks. To drop out of productive society... and find it difficult to return. Turning a cold heart towards the tent settlements..... Accepting this as a "new normal".... benefits NO ONE.

Do I have a finial, one-size-fits-all solution? No. But "leaving it be" is not an acceptable solution ether.

Originally Posted by Pamestique
.... PS: If you want to see what being a sanctuary city for the homeless is like, drive through downtown LA at night. Every street is lined with sleeping bags, boxes and bodies and rats... lots and lots of rats... I understand compassion for these folks, but it really is creating a problem for everyone else.
What a perversion of the word "sanctuary". I would think.... when such a word was applied to the act of enslavement of a people by institutionalizing poverty.... all but the least educated would have caught on. I would think outlaw city... might be a more accurate term.

Last edited by Dave Cutter; 11-11-15 at 02:20 PM.
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Old 11-11-15, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter

Preserving obsolete infrastructure adds extra costs and tax burdens that stifle the very economic growth that provides the needed jobs.
I'm going to guess that you live somewhere fairly well developed? And that most of the people are fairly well off?

The local libraries here are almost always well stocked with students (who can't afford gadgets), older people and other working family types. Most are using the books too.

It isn't just the homeless in libraries.
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Old 11-11-15, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by katsrevenge
I'm going to guess that you live somewhere fairly well developed? And that most of the people are fairly well off?
Yes... I live in America!

Originally Posted by katsrevenge
The local libraries here are almost always well stocked with students (who can't afford gadgets), older people and other working family types. Most are using the books too.
I've heard such things. But then when I go there.... that is NOT what I see. The memories of the way the world WAS... doesn't fit well for the way it IS today. The facts are... MOST books bought in America today... are never printed. Most books are digital downloads. Similar facts exist about music. Movies and other TV-like entertainment is rapidly becoming streaming media.

What percentage of Americas population do you suppose can not afford basic technologies? Are we now some 3rd world nation? Can our children afford pencils? How many years, decades, or centuries should we support obsolete technologies before we accept progress?

Last edited by Dave Cutter; 11-11-15 at 02:50 PM.
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Old 11-11-15, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter
I've heard such things. But then when I go there.... that is NOT what I see. The memories of the way the world WAS... doesn't fit well for the way it IS today. The facts are... MOST books bought in America today... are never printed. Most books are digital downloads. Similar facts exist about music. Movies and other TV-like entertainment is rapidly becoming streaming media.

What percentage of Americas population do you suppose can not afford basic technologies? Are we now some 3rd world nation? Can our children afford pencils? How many years, decades, or centuries should we support obsolete technologies before we accept progress?
I'm glad I don't live where you live... we don't have the scourge of homeless men in dirty coats downloading porn in our libraries either.

As if the presence of a library somehow stifles progress. SMDH.
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