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honor striping at 3-way intersection?

Old 12-17-15, 06:58 PM
  #1  
marquhar
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honor striping at 3-way intersection?

Here are 2 striping patterns I've seen at 3-way intersections.


When the stripe goes all the way across, does it mean, "Stop for redlight always"?

And, when the stripe is absent for the shoulder/BL does it mean, "bikes OK on redlight"?

IOW, for the SBBlvd case I would stop, but for Carmenita I would continue against red.

I usually read it this way and never was called on it. However I've noticed most riders will
not follow my lead and they always go through a 3-way against a redlight - happened many
times and I was left in the dust.
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Old 12-17-15, 07:15 PM
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Shimagnolo
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AFAIK, there is no provision in traffic laws to permit bikes to proceed, although it does seem pointless to stop when proceeding would never take you into a motor lane. I have an intersection like this in my regular ride, and since it is at the top of a climb, I just use the opportunity to catch my breathe.
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Old 12-17-15, 07:29 PM
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jon c. 
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It appears your interpretation might be correct, yet I suspect it's really just inconsistency in painting the lines as I think it unlikely there would be specific statutory provisions to allow bikes to proceed like that in T intersections.

Having said that, I think most riders would not stop. Around here they certainly wouldn't.
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Old 12-17-15, 07:56 PM
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On one the limit line crosses the bike lane and it isn't present in the intersection. You wouldn't have any counter argument to a red light ticket.

on the other the limit line doesn't cross the bike lane and the bike lane is solid all the way thru. You would at least have a good argument in front of the judge that it was ambiguous.

I probably wouldn't stop for either unless there was a semi making a wide left turn or a cop stopped at the intersection.
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Old 12-18-15, 07:49 PM
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sam21fire
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If you read through the CVC I think the answer gets simple...the striping is irrelevant; the traffic control device (signal light, stop sign) is what indicates if you must stop, go, yield etc.
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Old 12-22-15, 02:55 PM
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I searched a bit, but I couldn't find anything in the code that specifically addresses this issue. However, in the first picture, it seems like the limit line goes across the bike lane because there is a crosswalk at the intersection (even if it is at the far side of the intersection.) Because people may be crossing when their direction is green, you must stop for the red light. There does not seem to be a crosswalk in the second photo, so there is no risk of pedestrians (crossing legally under a controlled walk sign), therefore possibly allowing the bike lane to continue uninterrupted. I have no idea if a stop is mandatory in this case, it seems ambiguous at best. In OC, there are at least 2 places I know of like that. Both cases have no crosswalk, and both have no limit line in the bike lane. One is going up Newport Coast from Bonita Canyon at the first light after you pass under the toll road. The second is on Barranca crossing over 5 where the carpool lane exit is. Again, I don't know the actual law, but there seems to be some consistency of marking relative to limit lines and crosswalks. Interestingly, in the pictures posted, there is an accessable sidewalk to the right in the first photo but no crosswalk, while the sidewalk in the second photo is fenced off. However there is a pedestrian walk button on the pole in the second photo by the crosswalk. Wondering if the fence is temporary.
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Old 12-22-15, 03:07 PM
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I treat it as one should stop for the red light. But, I'm also loosing some patience for those stop lights on bike paths through T-intersections, so sometimes I'll slow a lot, but proceed through. I don't hit too many of them, but there are a couple.

There was something in the news recently about Paris France clarifying the laws, and allowing bikes to proceed through bike paths at (some) T-intersections, as well as right hand turns from bike path to bike path.

In the case of Paris, they were supposed to install signs at many of the affected intersections.

http://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-s...ic-lights.html
http://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-s...ed-lights.html
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Old 12-22-15, 03:29 PM
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The lane markings tell you where to stop. The light tells you if you have to.

Bikes are moving vehicles in most cases and have to follow the same rules as motor vehicles, including stopping at a solid or blinking red.

Thats the the law as far as I understand it.
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Old 01-01-16, 10:24 PM
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Crosswalks exist even if they are not marked.
I generally slow and look for pedestrians and other traffic, then proceed.
AFAIK one must stop if the light or sign indicates so.
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Old 01-02-16, 12:55 PM
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Here's the 'general' part of California Law relating to bicycles on a public roadway (CVC 21200). Note the first sentence. You can search the California website and find all the bicycle-specific laws in CVC21200-21212.

Law section

Also: The OP's attached pictures. In the Seal Beach Blvd picture there's a sedan making a left turn onto SB Blvd from a side street, same thing in the Carmenita picture with a minivan waiting to turn left. If you're approaching a 'T' intersection watch closely how those left-turning cars actually track through the turn into the right hand (slow) lane - they almost always swing wide and will drift into the shoulder lane/bike lane, increasing the odds a bicycle rider getting hit as they go through the intersection against the red. The most common one of these I encounter is the entrance to Bolsa Chica State Beach along PCH in Huntington Beach - I've seen a few bicycle riders almost get clobbered by running that light when going NB on PCH and cars were coming out of the beach parking lot.

FWIW: I always stop at these types of intersections (especially the Bolsa Chica Beach/PCH light!). Its faster to stop and wait for the green than wait for a cop to write you a ticket for running the red light.
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Old 01-02-16, 03:31 PM
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marquhar
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^ you are thinking of this beach entrance:


I usually treat this as a stop sign if its Red. Almost no riders stop here.
If I have anyone drafting me here I call out rolling or light up - I never approach this
light without some clarification of my intentions.
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