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Irvine Co. to Develop New Community on Santiago Canyon Road

Old 09-15-22, 09:14 AM
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Irvine Co. to Develop New Community on Santiago Canyon Road

Between Jamboree and the CA-241/CA-261 toll roads.

Irvine Co. readies land in Orange for 1,180 new homes Orange County Register (ocregister.com)

I guess I better get a few more rides on the Santiago Canyon Road before this project starts.
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Old 09-16-22, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by SoSmellyAir View Post
Between Jamboree and the CA-241/CA-261 toll roads.

Irvine Co. readies land in Orange for 1,180 new homes – Orange County Register (ocregister.com)

I guess I better get a few more rides on the Santiago Canyon Road before this project starts.
there was already that project on scr between modjeska grade rd and cooks corner on the north side of the road. now you've got this larger project on the other end of scr.
those new homes better be 100% fireproof from the outside (recessed windows, protected eves, zero attic entry for embers, etc) or that area will just end up being pawns in
the annual and yearlong fight against wildfires. with the amount of developer greed in socal historically building up against and into open/protected spaces chock full of "fuel,"
going to say "good luck" to the future residents. coyotes snatching your domestic pets will be the least of your problems. there are just some areas that never should have been developed
on any scale. looking at you santa monica mountains and santa clarita.

Last edited by ooga-booga; 09-16-22 at 12:42 AM.
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Old 09-16-22, 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted by ooga-booga View Post
there was already that project on scr between modjeska grade rd and cooks corner on the north side of the road.
I did not know there is another project at the other end of SCR. Probably too tired to see straight when I got there last time.

Originally Posted by ooga-booga View Post
now you've got this larger project on the other end of scr. those new homes better be 100% fireproof from the outside (recessed windows, protected eves, zero attic entry for embers, etc) or that area will just end up being pawns in the annual and yearlong fight against wildfires. with the amount of developer greed in socal historically building up against and into open/protected spaces chock full of "fuel," going to say "good luck" to the future residents.
West end of SCR does not seem like a more fire prone area than up Silverado Canyon Road or Modjeska Canyon Road. And Orange County Fire Authority is HQ is just down the road at the intersection of Jamboree and Tustin Ranch Road.
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Old 09-16-22, 01:08 AM
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doesn't really matter when you're dealing with 40-80 mph winds with less than or barely double-digit humidity in 85+ degree temps. air support is super-sketchy once the winds are over 30 mph.
when a wind-blown fire ember can spark a new blaze over a mile away, you've got serious problems. defensible space takes on new meaning. between this development and the worserer bigger
one up near gorman on the southern end of tejon ranch in the grapevine area, we'll be hearing more about both developments and for all the wrong reasons. chicken little much on my end? maybe. maybe not.
at least it's flattish enough there in northern irvine that they won't have to worry about winter/spring mudslides like they would in silverado or modjeska canyons. silver lining.

the existing housing areas southwest of the new scr development will now have a new firebreak. will increase the local traffic but might reduce their home insurance rates.

Last edited by ooga-booga; 09-16-22 at 01:18 AM.
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Old 09-16-22, 06:07 AM
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Besides the increased traffic, my concern is SCR will have added lanes and the wide bike lanes will be cut in half or worse.
All in the name of progress.

Last edited by CAT7RDR; 09-17-22 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 09-16-22, 08:34 AM
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I'm pretty libertarian in my views on life & property rights in general but in this case I completely agree with ooga-booga & CAT7. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD. Some areas need to be left to nature for the benefit of all.
Don't get me started on the lack of sufficient infrastructure as is.
Flex alert anyone?
West
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Old 09-17-22, 07:46 AM
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First, I will say that I agree that it's sad to see all this "Pave Paradise, put up a parking lot" mentality. I also cannot see living in such fire prone, dangerous area. The sad part about it all is that if we all come back in 40 years virtually all of that area will probably be housing tracts. I totally agree with OB in his first post regarding fire threat abatement. Even with the fire abatement protocols you still have the problem of being on a 2 lane highway (in and out) and once a major fire breaks out you're pretty much screwed.

Lately I have been debating whether to do my SCR loop and I guess now there's notquestion about it, I need to go and do some "Recon" pretty soon.
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Old 09-17-22, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by TakingMyTime View Post
First, I will say that I agree that it's sad to see all this "Pave Paradise, put up a parking lot" mentality. I also cannot see living in such fire prone, dangerous area. The sad part about it all is that if we all come back in 40 years virtually all of that area will probably be housing tracts.
That is inevitable. When I first moved to Irvine 21 years ago, there was little north of Irvine Blvd. and nothing north of Portola Pkwy.

Originally Posted by TakingMyTime View Post
I totally agree with OB in his first post regarding fire threat abatement. Even with the fire abatement protocols you still have the problem of being on a 2 lane highway (in and out) and once a major fire breaks out you're pretty much screwed.
I also agree that there is a fire risk there; I only meant above (in response to ooga-booga) that the fire risk there does not seem worse than the two canyon roads further east branching off from Santiago Canyon Road. The new community would be west of the toll roads; that section of Santiago Canyon Road is a 4 lane highway (2 lanes per direction).

Originally Posted by TakingMyTime View Post
ately I have been debating whether to do my SCR loop and I guess now there's notquestion about it, I need to go and do some "Recon" pretty soon.
Let's all update this thread with details about this new development. Once that starts, I would do a recon drive before I ride on Santiago Canyon Road again.

For me, the scariest stretch of Santiago Canyon Road eastbound is just past the on ramp onto CA-261 southbound. At some point after that intersection, a cyclist has to move over to the left to continue on Santiago Canyon Road instead of continuing onto CA-241 southbound. But some cars are going at toll road speeds. All this plus being on the edge of an overpass so far from the ground makes me quite nervous. Add in construction traffic and I may have to avoid Santiago Canyon Road altogether. I wish there was a way I could ride this road starting past the toll roads.
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Old 09-17-22, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by SoSmellyAir View Post
That is inevitable. When I first moved to Irvine 21 years ago, there was little north of Irvine Blvd. and nothing north of Portola Pkwy.



I also agree that there is a fire risk there; I only meant above (in response to ooga-booga) that the fire risk there does not seem worse than the two canyon roads further east branching off from Santiago Canyon Road. The new community would be west of the toll roads; that section of Santiago Canyon Road is a 4 lane highway (2 lanes per direction).



Let's all update this thread with details about this new development. Once that starts, I would do a recon drive before I ride on Santiago Canyon Road again.

For me, the scariest stretch of Santiago Canyon Road eastbound is just past the on ramp onto CA-261 southbound. At some point after that intersection, a cyclist has to move over to the left to continue on Santiago Canyon Road instead of continuing onto CA-241 southbound. But some cars are going at toll road speeds. All this plus being on the edge of an overpass so far from the ground makes me quite nervous. Add in construction traffic and I may have to avoid Santiago Canyon Road altogether. I wish there was a way I could ride this road starting past the toll roads.
silverado canyon, modjeska canyon and trabuco canyon...firewise...are different than the open plain of the new development of the western end of scr. the three previously mentioned canyons are more like a chiminea...the western scr end housing proposal
is like a fire pit-on high-with the santa ana winds acting as the world's largest hair dryer/flamethrower blowing towards the new to be residences. there is a reason why the housing area (on virgin/undeveloped land) is nearly 100% bereft of older, native flora growth such as oak trees.
i'll give everyone a guess as to why...you've surely heard of a flood plain. have you thought about a fire plain?

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Old 09-17-22, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ooga-booga View Post
...the western scr end housing proposal is like a fire pit-on high-with the santa ana winds acting as the world's largest hair dryer/flamethrower blowing towards the new to be residences.
I see. There was once (in the past 10 years?) where the northern half of Peters Canyon Park was burnt.
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Old 09-17-22, 08:17 PM
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it's huge to have the 241, 261 and scr as small firebreaks/staging areas but the fires can just get too intense and wind-driven for those highways/roads to be impregnable.
too much fuel in the santa ana mtns for suppression/defense to be an easy equation. sorry to be chicken little but it's not getting easier here in socal re: wildfires.

as a counterpoint...ride those roads such as live oak canyon, old topanga rd, hwy 138, old ridge route, gmr/grr, big and little tujunga canyon roads, latigo canyon, deer creek,
hwys 2 & 39, hwy 18, hwy 243, east and south palomar, hwy 79, kitchen creek, yerba buena, sunrise hwy, scr, japatul rd, mulholland dr, boulder creek rd, lyons valley rd, hwy 74
and a few more. they are bred to burn-and will at some point. appreciate them in their full glory. stop and take pics. enjoy the curves, scents and the shade at whatever mix of
speeds you choose/muster. all too many of them will be altered during your lifetime and will not regain maturity for 50+ years. ride and enjoy whatcha got-now.

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Old 09-18-22, 07:28 AM
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My friends and I were riding on Portola a couple of weeks ago and the homes are going up north of the road like crazy. Back in the early/mid 70's my friends family belonged to the Coto De Caza gun club (closed in 1991). We use to drive out there a lot to go shooting. I have a really good sense of how all that area has changed over the past 50 years.
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Old 09-18-22, 07:36 PM
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took my own advice and rode past/thru the 241/261/jamboree triangle today from scr. part of it is a little hillier (the earth movers will take care of that) than i remembered.
original statement still stands. there was a little native oak tree arbor-about the size of a corner franchise (stand alone sbux, mcd's, jnb, 7-11, et al) just north
of the 241 there that looks to be approx 25-40 years old. on the lee side of the biggest hill in the to be developed "triangle," there's a decent-sized prickly pear cacti
patch and some laurel sumac bushes that look to be about 10 years old. other than that...it's all burned in recent times.

may have posted this older new yorker magazine excerpt by john mcphee in the past. starts off with san gabriel mtns debris flows and gets to fire ecology eventually. def worthy.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1...he-mountains-i

on a semi-related note...preference for riding scr? prefer east to west. knock out 80% of the climbing (with that climb from cook's corner up to garten rd) right off the bat,
scenery is better (imho) and you rip through the 241/261 on/off ramps at speed vs slogging uphill thru those zones.

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Old 09-19-22, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by TakingMyTime View Post
My friends and I were riding on Portola a couple of weeks ago and the homes are going up north of the road like crazy. Back in the early/mid 70's my friends family belonged to the Coto De Caza gun club (closed in 1991). We use to drive out there a lot to go shooting. I have a really good sense of how all that area has changed over the past 50 years.
You remember the South Coast Gun Club up at the top of Jeffery Road? My Dad took me there late 70s we shot trap & skeet & also used the rifle range. When they closed (don't remember the year) they had to dig up alot of dirt to remove all the spent lead.
Back in high school we hot-rodders would caravan down to OCIR for Wed. night run-what-you-brung it would take all of @ a half hour to get there from Anaheim. Only thing down there were orange groves & Marines.
West.
P.S. Hey you kids get off my lawn!!! :-)
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Old 09-19-22, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by ooga-booga View Post
took my own advice and rode past/thru the 241/261/jamboree triangle today from scr. part of it is a little hillier (the earth movers will take care of that) than i remembered.
original statement still stands. there was a little native oak tree arbor-about the size of a corner franchise (stand alone sbux, mcd's, jnb, 7-11, et al) just north
of the 241 there that looks to be approx 25-40 years old. on the lee side of the biggest hill in the to be developed "triangle," there's a decent-sized prickly pear cacti
patch and some laurel sumac bushes that look to be about 10 years old. other than that...it's all burned in recent times.

may have posted this older new yorker magazine excerpt by john mcphee in the past. starts off with san gabriel mtns debris flows and gets to fire ecology eventually. def worthy.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1...he-mountains-i

on a semi-related note...preference for riding scr? prefer east to west. knock out 80% of the climbing (with that climb from cook's corner up to garten rd) right off the bat,
scenery is better (imho) and you rip through the 241/261 on/off ramps at speed vs slogging uphill thru those zones.
I can personally attest to the New Yorker article about how fast thunderstorms along the San Gabriel Mtns can wreak havoc.
I worked for a hardware supplier near Irwindale in the 1980's - early 1990's. One night, a storm cell dropped 5 inches of rain in one hour. The warehouse roof repairmen failed to remove a five gallon Henry's bucket. This bucket got lodged in a drain gutter. The end result was a corner of the warehouse collapsed and the second floor business office and first floor were entirely flooded.

It's been a couple years since I had the pleasure of SCR. I usually make it an up and back and include Silverado, Modjeska and sometimes loop around Live Oak.
Hope to make that route again this Fall. My first ride along SCR was about 1987. I was in awe that for 12 miles there were no stops.
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Old 09-19-22, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by ooga-booga View Post
on a semi-related note...preference for riding scr? prefer east to west. knock out 80% of the climbing (with that climb from cook's corner up to garten rd) right off the bat,
scenery is better (imho) and you rip through the 241/261 on/off ramps at speed vs slogging uphill thru those zones.
I got to try that one day but I live so much closer to the west end of SCR.

Originally Posted by 2seven0 View Post
Back in high school we hot-rodders would caravan down to OCIR for Wed. night run-what-you-brung it would take all of @ a half hour to get there from Anaheim.
I wish something like the OCIR was still available; there are a lot of fast, modified cars in Irvine. On a quiet night you can hear them ripping through shifts on Portola Pkwy.
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Old 09-20-22, 06:37 AM
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Although I don't do SCR that often, I usually start at Cypress Community Park on Jeffries right off the 5 fwy. It's a great place to park, has bathrooms and is in a great neighborhood. We then take Jeffries north to Portola, Portola west to Jamboree and then there is that slow 2 mile grind up Jamboree. Once we're on SCR it really doesn't bother me going West to East. Once we get to El Toro it's a nice slow downhill ride back to the park on various roads like Alton Parkway, Lake Forest etc.

To me going East to West on SCR doesn't appear to offer less of a climb. I always thought that you pay for the initial pain whether you're griding up Jamboree or El Toro to get to SCR. Once on SCR I really like it. That part of the ride is cool.
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Old 09-21-22, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by TakingMyTime View Post
First, I will say that I agree that it's sad to see all this "Pave Paradise, put up a parking lot" mentality.
Big Yellow Taxi Joni Mitchell



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Old 09-29-22, 06:04 PM
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They were moving along with this project 4-5 years ago but suddenly stopped (before covid). Bad time to start, given home interest rates. Anyway, we like hiking and mountain biking the north side of the project which abuts Irvine Regional Park--say goodbye to the awesome trails and meadow up there. BTW, the last fire we had swept right up the cliffs and thru where they're building.
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Old 10-05-22, 02:43 PM
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Isn't there are a service road (Loma Ridge Rd) nearby the project that goes up to the `Fusion Center`, major spook activity, especially for HSI and FEMA?

Plenty of microwave link towers, great for high energy transmissions. Should be a nice warm feeling for the new residents.
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Old 11-11-22, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by TakingMyTime View Post
Although I don't do SCR that often, I usually start at Cypress Community Park on Jeffries right off the 5 fwy. It's a great place to park, has bathrooms and is in a great neighborhood. We then take Jeffries north to Portola, Portola west to Jamboree and then there is that slow 2 mile grind up Jamboree. Once we're on SCR it really doesn't bother me going West to East. Once we get to El Toro it's a nice slow downhill ride back to the park on various roads like Alton Parkway, Lake Forest etc.

To me going East to West on SCR doesn't appear to offer less of a climb. I always thought that you pay for the initial pain whether you're griding up Jamboree or El Toro to get to SCR. Once on SCR I really like it. That part of the ride is cool.
Cypress Community Park is too far. If I were driving here to ride SCR westbound, I would park at either (a) Citrus Ranch Park (on Portola between Tustin Ranch and Jamboree) if you want to ride up Jamboree, or (b) Cedar Grove Park to ride up Pioneer.

Does anyone know whether the development has started yet? I want to ride SCR westbound this weekend.
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Old 11-11-22, 01:00 PM
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I haven't been past there in a few weeks, but I'm pretty sure nothing has happened yet.

This development will suck. Less open space, more traffic.

That area has burned before and the Toll Roads offer no protection. Recent fires (even the one started by Valtrans on the 91) have all jumped during wind events like there was nothing stopping the fires.
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Old 11-11-22, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Rumpled View Post
I haven't been past there in a few weeks, but I'm pretty sure nothing has happened yet.

This development will suck. Less open space, more traffic.

That area has burned before and the Toll Roads offer no protection. Recent fires (even the one started by Valtrans on the 91) have all jumped during wind events like there was nothing stopping the fires.
Do you still have to pay taxes on burned down property?
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Old 11-11-22, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Gyro View Post
Do you still have to pay taxes on burned down property?
Yes, but your property tax basis would be much lower.
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Old 11-12-22, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by SoSmellyAir View Post
Cypress Community Park is too far. If I were driving here to ride SCR westbound, I would park at either (a) Citrus Ranch Park (on Portola between Tustin Ranch and Jamboree) if you want to ride up Jamboree, or (b) Cedar Grove Park to ride up Pioneer.

Does anyone know whether the development has started yet? I want to ride SCR westbound this weekend.
grab it at whatever pace you wanna hit. life is too short not to. hit silverado and/or modjeska canyon(s) along the way as well. both are definitely worthy. thinking the development will be mostly focused off jamboree initially.

on a weekend? personally, would prefer being off scr by/before 11am with all the motorcycle traffic.

first time westbound? it's my preference. short and sweet climbing vs long and gradual. both directions are must-do but views are better westbound imho...esp in the late winter/early spring when things are green.

Last edited by ooga-booga; 11-12-22 at 05:08 AM.
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