jeffc7

I'm new to this forum (couple of weeks) and have found it very informative and entertaining. I have a question regarding passing a large group ride.

A couple of months ago, I was riding solo (95% of the time) and I spotted a large group of riders (20-30) about a half mile in front of me so I kicked it in gear and caught the group. Once I got there I did not really know what to do. The group was riding around 24-25 mph and I was sitting in the rear coasting. It felt kind of awkward so I decided to pass the bunch. Since it was such a large group it was spread out pretty good so I shifted down a gear and held my line as I passed them with a steady, but increasing tempo. I never got out of the saddle, attempted to sprint or even go to the drops. I didn't make eye contact, just held my line and passed them all. I knew I was going pretty good since my heart was pumping. I kept it up to get some separation, looked down at the computer and to my suprise I was doing 35-36mph. By far the fastest I've ever gone on a flat road with no wind (slight head wind if anything on the way to the beach in Irvine). Adreneline is a crazy thing. I didn't even turn around until about a mile later at a red light. Apparently one guy jumped my wheel and was behind me the whole time.

For those of you that ride in groups, how do you feel about people passing you or even sitting on the rear. I wasn't trying to show up the group (well maybe a little), I just felt unconfortable drafting in the back of a bunch of strangers.

Since I ride alone most of the time, part of the fun is catching other riders and passing them, although most of the time solo riders. That's what motivates me to push myself.

Should I acknowledge the group as I go by? Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions?

roadfix

Believe me, you didn't hurt anyone's feelings. With that many riders, they probably thought you were one of them.

big john

How about "Hi", or "Good morning"?

Oleanshoebox

i wouldn't put too much stock into this-seeing as how i'm somewhat of a noob myself, but what big john said makes a lot of sense. i've seen five bazillion 'passing etiquette' posts on here in the one month i have been a member and the general consensus is that there are no rules. i know its a cheesy and overused sentiment-but treat people how you want to be treated and you can't go wrong.

when i used to ride w/my grandpa as a kid i remember he would say hi to every person he saw.


seems like a good idea to me.

maximan1

or "WAZZZZZZUPPP!!!!!!"

zzzwillzzz

i thought the point of cycling was drafting... i always try to ride with people as opposed to against them (well, most of the time) and i never ridden with a group that wouldn't give chase and hunt you down 'til you were either dropped or vomiting. you got lucky, it won't happen again. either that or your pro contract is imminent

ecnetsixe

so you are riding the hoods i presume, pushing into a slight head wind on flat ground at a tempo and crushing 36mph....im choosing not to believe you right now jeff. sorry mate.

as for going around a group ride i would have acted exactly how you did. there is nothing wrong with carefully going around them and minding your own business. of course if you notice any hot chicks then you may need to review this strategy

maximan1

Yeah 36 is kinda...well...impossible without a downhill slant.

urbanknight

Same here, the only person I ever saw passing a pack that was cruising 28 mph (almost flat) was Tinker Juarez, and he was doing maybe 30 at the time, just gradually sneaking by. If you're telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God, you need a pro contract now.

Extort

?
As for what you should be doing.... if you are sitting upright on a bike doing 36mph, then you tell everyone that you pass to latch onto your wheel so that you can pull for a while.

And if you can do that pace for a mile, I'll gladly sit behind you and then pull when it is my turn...

ADlBOO

Me and three other guys were out cruising pch on monday, holding anywhere from 20-27 mostly in between and get caught at a red light in middle of newport. Waiting for the light we all of a sudden get swarmed by a pack of riders, prolly velo allegro. (most of them were older and ready to puke their guts out, guess that a couple of the Simple Green/Volvo riders had just done a sprint or something) but was kinda funny cuz we expected them to keep cruising at a nice speed but nope, they were pretty much gone. But was kinda interesting that a whole group could swarm us, literally like to the left, right and behind us and not one of them said a word to us... We cruised with them a lil until we realized we were goin slower than before they swarmed us, so we made our way to the front and kept our regular speed.

^^^ dont really know if that relates a whole lot to this... But kinda a interesting story, and if anybody knows this group which club is it? And how do i get on the simple green team? :-p

bitingduck

Calibrate your computer by measuring the rollout of your wheel. If it's already calibrated and it really was flat ground, then get a USCF license and send me a PM and I'll get you info so you can join my club...

As far as passing the big group-- most of them probably thought you were one of them rolling off the front and nobody felt like chasing. If they all knew each other and knew you weren't with them (by your hairy legs or something) then they probably didn't care. With a big group ride you shouldn't feel any need to acknowledge the group, though if you end up next to someone for a bit you might ask them where and when the ride starts, how far it goes, and if just anybody is welcome.

If you want to latch on to them and draft for a while but don't have group ride experience, just get on the very back-- it's really easy to draft there without being very close because a large group will disturb a lot of air and you can start to see how pack rides work. Chat with someone at the back if you can, and find out about the ride, and if you can ride with them again, and what experience level is expected. Group/Pack rides can be fun depending on who's there and what the ride is for.

(edited to fix a typo-- with a big group ride you shouldn't feel any need...)

ecnetsixe

dont worry about making up your speeds on here jeff cos lots of people do it. but just so you know no one expects you to be doing 36mph on flats into a head wind. but i appreciated your post cos ive been dreading the day i come across a big pack of cyclists as i also wouldnt really know how to approach it either!!!

mrdick

i learned a little about drafting and pack riding on my first 2 group rides here.

TrevorInSoCal

Are you saying it's impossible to achieve that speed, or impossible to maintain? Probably any number of people here can achieve that speed relatively easily on a flat maintaining it is another matter.

It's certainly not impossible, but, as others have already pointed out, *highly* unlikely for a recreational cyclist to be "cruising" at that speed by oneself. For a point of reference, David Millar's individual time trial win in the '03 Tour (The first non-broken link I got from googling time-trial results.) came at an average speed of just under 34 MPH.

I'd guess that what happened is that the OP came upon the pack and accelerated through their draft (Cruising at 30+ in a large pack is actually relatively easy with no wind. Even more so with a tailwind or slight downhill.), and probably was briefly at that speed after slingshotting off the front, which is when he looked down at his speed.

From his description, that sounds like what actually happened, and is not *completely* improbable.

After gapping them (all of them except for the guy who jumped on his wheel anyway), he probably maintained a speed slightly faster than the pack, but nowhere near 36 MPH for any extended period of time. Not unless it was downhill or there was a hellacious tailwind.

ecnetsixe

trev.....hands on hoods without getting out of the saddle to launch? its completely out of the question IMHO. I have no doubt jeff blasted past them at a great speed though and good on him

Wasnt Millar on drugs in 03....i know he admited to doping not long after.

I hope one day i can drop group rides too - it must of been a real buzz for jeff no doubt!!!

bitingduck

Trevor's scenario is pretty reasonable-- a group ride disturbs a lot of air and it can be pretty effortless to be doing 30 at the back while some poor schmuck is killing himself at the front, and then sometimes you can accelerate through the slipstream and hit 35+ pretty easily. There are a couple of spots on one of the local group rides where it picks up and you can really rip. It would be easy enough to look down, see "36" and then maintain the same effort as you slow to something more reasonable while getting a gap.

It's not that different from how attacks happen in races- the pack is moving along at a good clip, the attacker puts on some speed from partway back and blows past the front at a speed higher than the guys at the front can easily accelerate to in order to get on his wheel. They say "screw it, he'll die anyway, I'm not going to chase". A gap opens and then the attacker settles down to a speed hopefully a little faster than the pack. If it's the same speed then the attacker suffers until he dies and gets absorbed or dangles until the sprint blows past. If it's a lower speed he just gets sucked back up. If the pack organizes a chase then the attacker is pretty likely to get caught. If the pack ignores him and lets him get away then he keeps getting distance and maybe wins.

ecnetsixe

ok ok i take it all back...jeff WAS doing 36mph hands on hoods, into a slight headwind.

(i love the part where the group was only doing 25mph and yet there was so much air that he got blasted forward at 36mph i wish was there)

im done with this.

ovoleg

36mph is too fast for you to be slowly passing them in a tempo

Thats like sprint speed for me, if I can even do that on flats without a tailwind....

I think you need to calibrate your computer, other than that I would just say "hi"?

Garfield Cat

Wouldn't it be awesome if one were superhuman and had say 3 times the leg strength and 3 times the ability to transport oxygen to the blood? Then with proper gearing I would be going 60 mph.

Mo'Phat

ecnetsixe: What? You can't do 36mph on the flats? But this is how we do it in the US of A, partner! All it takes is recalibrating your speedo so you're going 15 mph while the bike's hanging in your garage.

octico

Why don't meet us on our Sunday ride in H.B. maybe we can calibrate your odometer.

bitingduck

Ya'll area starting to sound like the road forum...

Toss in a very slight downhill and/or tailwind and it's plausible that he's calibrated and saw 36, even while on the hoods. A tailwind will feel like a "slight headwind" at 36. No wind feels like a *lot* of headwind at 36. It's unlikely that he maintained the speed (unless there was a barely perceptible downhill or tailwind), but could have seen the 36 and then maintained the effort without realizing his speed was dropping. There are places that seem flat but are slightly downhill where you can really rip at what seem like unreasonable speeds for the effort, even solo-- Green Street in Pasadena is a classic.

jeffc7

To clarify, my computer is calibrated, I was doing 35 when passing the group. I did not do 35 the whole mile after passing the group. It was the fastest I've ever gone in the flats, that's why I remember it so well. I just didn't check my wheel until after a mile. When I ride on the hoods, I am pretty aero as it is, I do not sit upright. And I was toast when I stopped at the red. The group pulled up at the light, they went straight, I strategically turned left. At that point they could be going 20 and I would probably get dropped.

LA_Rider

Passing is easy, staying out front is not.